Charlie Marshall - Doula - Natural Deliveries

[00:00:00] Track 1: you for having me, Kelly.

Oh two. Two very interesting. birth stories, . They were complete opposites. Complete opposites. So, with our oldest son, Julian, he was a surprise. and, you know, surprises come with things. Uh, we didn't have any complications with our pregnancy. Just some regular morning sickness and things like that towards the end of the pregnancy.

So for the most part, conception was easy. Both babies were actually surprises. Julian , Julian, [00:01:00] my, the, the baby who treated my body well. We had a great pregnancy. I was that mom. I was pregnant in heels. I was wearing dresses. As soon as the summer came out, you could catch me and my baby bump in a bikini.

And when it came time for delivery, he just wouldn't budge. So, my midwife decided that we were gonna induce. I did not want to be induced. Oh my goodness. I tried to do everything. I tried to do everything I could possibly do to send myself into labor. I walked the Woodrow Wilson Bridge. I jumped to backwards in my driveway in a full moon.

I did everything except castor oil because the stories scared the heck outta me. but we got to induction day and I went in there and I, I thugged it out. I. Four centimeters when I walked in the building, and that was at 1215. By I was in the bed with an iv questions asked database done. You know, by one I was getting [00:02:00] side attack or serval something, and at four 19 I had a baby

It was amazing. Like it's almost like you don't wanna tell anybody that because thing. Oh, I did not have an epidural. I decided from the moment we found out we were pregnant with Julian, I decided that I wanted to do it all. , we didn't know if we were gonna be able to get pregnant. we had health scare earlier in the year, but I had decided early on, like, I don't wanna get an epidural.

I wanna see how far I can go. And, but I did mentally prepare for it. . so I worked with an amazing midwife. She cared for me very closely. we became friends and when it was time to push, she said, listen straight into your bottom.

It didn't matter because what I was feeling from being a natural pushing mom, it was, it was perfect. It felt so good to push, like it felt so good. I can almost feel it right now.

Like it was like, I [00:03:00] don't wanna stop pushing. It felt so good to push and three pushes and he was out and this baby was born on call. I never ruptured. He was born in his sack. It was his father fainted

so my mom cut the cord. It was amazing. And then you have our youngest and they say that the second child cares nothing about you. And if, superstition is true. This one proved it to me. I had hyperemesis for 30 weeks with our second child. It was awful. Oh my goodness.

It was awful. I don't know how I made it through . But, we decided that at 39 weeks we were gonna go ahead and induce, although I was scared of an induction and I was that mom who wanted the dramatics, I wanted. To be a tropical smoothie in my water breaks or you know, , it's so dramatic.

I wanted to be in the mall and I just go into labor or you're sleeping in your water breaks and [00:04:00] But We decided that at 39 weeks we had to induce and lucky me, 39 weeks landed directly on our first son's birthday. So now we have two babies with the same birthday. My labor. Cion was different. They put me on Pitocin.

They did all the things which they didn't have to do. It was 10 of Pitocin. I had a baby in four hours. It was almost like the first one. Just no pit with the first one. But, It was beautiful. Warren did not thank, thank goodness. Warren actually explored the placenta after he cut the cord.

He did skin to skin, like the second experience was just so, it was, it was the same and different in so many concepts that you can just appreciate for, you know, them individually. and if I have a third. I think I'm gonna choose to go unmedicated again. I fully, fully stand by my decision personally to do what I'm medicated.

And I mean, now you can't tell me anything. Cause I really do believe [00:05:00] I'm Superwoman. So there's that.

[00:05:02] kelly: You are you a doula with your first,

[00:05:07] Track 1: Yes,

[00:05:08] kelly: So how long had you been 

[00:05:10] Track 1: I had been a doula at that point for going on five years, like unofficially, like I, my friends would have babies and I'd be like, no, no, no. You don't have to get the epidural. I'm gonna help you. You know, so at that point I considered myself a doula. which ones? I went through my training.

They assured us that we were doing it, so, you know, 

[00:05:29] kelly: do you do for moms to help them get through labor and delivery the epidural?

[00:05:39] Track 1: You know, it's all in, everything is particular to each client and what their need looks like. some women go in and they've done all the things. They've done the hypnobirthing, they've done the lamaze, Some moms have taken spinning babies themselves. You know, things like that. It's all in the individual's client's needs.

if they're looking for more emotional supports, so they can get through it mentally, because some people run a marathon [00:06:00] by mental training. You know, if it's that, then that's what you do for them. You give them the affirmation, you give them the, reassurance. You just give them that type of support.

Now, if you have a mom who's like, I know I can do it. I'm doing the yoga, I'm going to the chiropractor, I'm this and I'm that. I just need more physical support, then that's where you wanna whip out your tools and you wanna crack your knuckles and get in there and do all the things you know, and get your rebozo, you know, all those things.

So I think it's just individual to each client and, I think that's another reason to have a birth plan. Just one of the reasons to have a birth plan. We can do what's individualized to you to help you make it through.

[00:06:35] kelly: So then you prepared for your first birth, what was it that helped you through it mentally?

[00:06:41] Track 1: so for the first birth did, I got some hypno birthing tapes. I didn't know too much about it and no one that I knew knew too much about it, but I found some things on YouTube and I trained my cousin. on how to be my unofficial doula. I showed her what, like the pressure points were. we did breathing together.

I showed her [00:07:00] the mechanisms for the ball, how to support me in squats, things like that. I just kept telling myself, you're no punk and I don't like needles, so you were not sticking one in my back. That the driving force. No one was gonna stick a needle in my back so,

[00:07:13] kelly: cracks me up. Who would rather have a baby come out of their vagina than have a needle 

[00:07:18] Track 1: and the crazy thing my first exam with my midwife, she was like, oh, I found piercings. Are there any more? So it's like, those are fine. You're not sticking a needle in my back. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. know, it's just comparable to sticking a needle in my eyeball.

It's just we can't do that. 

[00:07:34] kelly: jumped off the table.

[00:07:40] Track 1: you see yeah.

[00:07:44] kelly: then for the second one, did you prepare any differently?

[00:07:48] Track 1: Um, I did, I hired a professional doula. I did more physical work. I saw a chiropractor starting at 20 weeks to try to at least help with some of the nausea and vomiting, which at that point it [00:08:00] helped, but it didn't completely subside. I actually purchased , the Hypnobirthing tapes. it's, and it was completely different than what I thought it was gonna be.

Like, oh, there's just something that you listen to and it's gonna hypnotize you and you're gonna be able to do it. No, there are tapes to help you sleep. There are tapes to help you. Like it was so many you prepare like over time. So I did that and I was very vocal with my midwives and. know, care team so I could feel like I was gonna be successful. And they heard it. I mean, even in the delivery, the doctor was saying things to me that had said to her months before, like, no, no, no.

Remember, you know, I feel like those things, just being open with my care team and, and being open with myself about how far I really knew I could go. It really helped

 when my midwife looked at me and told me to [00:09:00] get it out of my. and put it all in my bottom. She told me to take a really big bowel movement. and at that point I'm like, I'm good at that. So thanks

[00:09:11] kelly: If you have ever

[00:09:12] Track 1: So,

[00:09:13] kelly: now is your moment

[00:09:15] Track 1: oh my goodness. And pregnancy will offer you some constipation, so yes, yes, yes, yes. So once you said that, it was like, oh, there, because when you say push and when they tell you to hold your breath, like you're gonna dive into the pool, you're like, okay. , and then it's like, wait, don't pass out. Get it outta your face.

Put it , put it in your bottom. So I was like, okay, boom. I got it. Yeah,

 Because they don't wanna poop or because it hurts.

Okay. Yeah. I'm sorry, princess. Your baby's not

[00:09:55] kelly: Guess where your baby's head is?

[00:09:58] Track 1: right? Literally . [00:10:00] I'm so sorry. Like even in the delivery room, I tell moms, I'm like, Hey, so I just wanna let you know that you are pooping in the right spot. There are things that tell me that because they don't wanna hear that they've pooped.

Yeah. Yeah. You, I'm sorry you're not pooping in the right spot, but you're pushing in the right spot because there are things that, that tell me that, you know, they don't want to hear that they've pooped, but honey, doing good.

[00:10:27] kelly: cares.

[00:10:28] Track 1: No one cares. Like that's what we want. It tells us that, oh, okay, like you are doing it and that you're not just,

make, we're gonna make sure that they don't do that. Like, you know, we do specialize in, in dignity. So

[00:10:44] kelly: We do.

[00:10:45] Track 1: so,

[00:10:46] kelly: So when you're preparing a client for delivery and you've talked to them about their goals and whatnot, do you send them to the route that you think is gonna help them the best?

Like whether it's lamas, hypnobirthing, [00:11:00] that kind of thing? Or do you have them train in a variety of things? How do you, how do you plan for that?

[00:11:05] Track 1: So I never, I never like actually just send them. I always break things down to them and tell them what their options are and what I recommend. I recommend for every client. , whether they're having a C-section, whether they know they're gonna get the epidural and they just want me there for whatever, whether they're wanna go no matter what at 20 weeks and beyond.

I always recommend they see a chiropractor. you know, it helps in so many different ways. You can reduce the. The rate of a breach baby, you know, it helps you feel better overall cuz you're growing an entire human inside of you, you know? and yes, so based off what they need, I'll give them what I know and I'll tell them that it's their decision.

But I am here as a resource for you. So you have any other questions, let me know and I can do the research or suggest something based on what you need.

[00:11:55] kelly: There So if you could go back and talk to yourself before you had your first baby, so [00:12:00] that you could prepare for either that birth or the next birth, what would you tell?

[00:12:04] Track 1: Sleep the night before

Don't be up anxious. Just get some rest because until you go home from the hospital, that's gonna be the last time you sleep I mean, at least when you get home, there's. Depending on who, who your family is, there's a, a mother, a mother-in-law there, ready to receive the baby and take over. So you can take a shower or take a nap, or you know, a husband who's just ready to a partner or whoever who's just ready to maybe have their alone time with the baby.

I just, I just foresee, depending on everyone's situation, at least for my own, Take a nap the day before it, because until you come home from the hospital, you are not gonna sleep. The the pediatrician's gonna come in, your nurse is gonna come in, your doctor's gonna come in, the baby's gonna come out.

[00:12:52] kelly: Yeah.

[00:12:53] Track 1: and then the hearing test and the, lactation specialist and then fun checks, it's, you're [00:13:00] not gonna sleep.

Get some rest and just, yeah, just go with it. Don't stress over. 

Yeah 

[00:13:07] kelly: so when you're in the hospital, and I'm assuming you've had clients at multiple different hospitals as a labor nurse, sometimes it is difficult because the. Policies of the hospital and expectations of nursing and medical staff are a little bit different, a little bit more medicalized than the expectation of a straightforward birth. So how is nurses. especially now you going into nursing school. How is nurses can we help with these natural births, with or without a doula to support the mom our restrictions?

[00:13:50] Track 1: given the restrictions. I really just say hear and advocate because hearing is one thing, but action is another thing. Right? And sometimes [00:14:00] because we are stuck within the guidelines or we're stuck within the restrictions of the hospital's policy, sometimes we just hear it and we don't attempt to take action cuz we've been there.

Right? We know that some providers are more lenient, some providers.

 for example, if we have a mom who's having an unmedicated birth and she is telling us what she feels and, and we know that if we say, if we hear, oh, I'm feeling constant pressure, that tells us something right? . If she doesn't know how to express that, if she doesn't, if she's not feeling what we think she should feel, it shouldn't be disregarded.

We should further investigate. and that's what I mean, like with them being stuck in the gut. Now, if it's something of, oh, I wanna have my baby standing up in the middle of the floor. If we know goodness, well that our hospital policy is you have, you can have your baby standing on your head as long as it's in the bed.

Like whatever. Yeah. It has to be in the bed. Like, I can help you. [00:15:00] We can figure out all the different ways 

you 

[00:15:02] kelly: you.

if you're on your head, but yes.

[00:15:04] Track 1: mean, but you know, like you, we've seen it, like we get some, we get some very interesting requests, , so it's just like, I don't know. I just feel like being, hearing a patient and a client and, and putting action behind it really helps, a advocating really helps.

That's what makes the difference.

[00:15:25] kelly: Far as culture, I'm guilty of this, so I'm just gonna throw this out there. There's a mom screaming down the hall, And the door's shut and you can still hear her. And that's how she's coping.

Maybe not. I hear a lot of like comments at the nurse's station.

do you recommend? Okay 

[00:15:44] Track 1: I am gonna say that I'm guilty as well. Okay. Every time. Every time. Okay. Especially , especially when a patient rolls through the door the first thing I say is she's either complete or she's one

[00:15:56] kelly: Yeah.

[00:15:57] Track 1: That's the, that's the first thing I say. other [00:16:00] than, you know, us going, obviously we'll go down there and, and figure out what's wrong.

But, for the, for the ones who don't go and figure out what's wrong, I mean, it doesn't hurt anything. Like what

[00:16:10] kelly: It's uncomfortable. It's like you have to break

the tension You something 

[00:16:14] Track 1: Yeah 

[00:16:15] kelly: think a lot of it is just medical staff humor because we've seen so much, get a little, nervous, like, is this gonna go well or is this not?

So let's break the tension. But I mean, personally I was guilty of being that person screaming in labor So I'm a little sensitive to that because I think everybody has a different, I don't wanna say pain tolerance cuz I don't think that's fair. I think everybody tolerates what they can tolerate, but everybody has a different anatomy. learn in nursing school that one of the worst pains is bone pain, right? that includes if 

[00:16:50] Track 1: Oh

[00:16:53] kelly: just because it's malpositioned or whatever. And having had two babies that came out, putt transverse, or at [00:17:00] least

[00:17:00] Track 1: Ugh.

[00:17:00] kelly: second one turned with the vacuum.

[00:17:04] Track 1: But you mentioned vacuum, so we're back at square one.

[00:17:08] kelly: Nothing was

[00:17:09] Track 1: Oh my gosh. Nothing. Oh my goodness.

[00:17:12] kelly: I felt like both times at about six centimeters I started getting really pushy cuz they were low in a funky 

[00:17:19] Track 1: Yeah 

[00:17:20] kelly: copes a different way and everybody's equipped to out what positions work best for labor. first time I was in a stretcher got to the hospital. I was comfortable at home. I was in a stretcher when I got to the hospital, and that was hell. really knowing where to go to and get into a better, And then with my second, we have the rocking. where I delivered which

[00:17:45] Track 1: Mm-hmm.

[00:17:46] kelly: Oh my gosh.

[00:17:47] Track 1: Nice 

[00:17:48] kelly: I just feel like offering some guidance and support positioning is helpful,

[00:17:54] Track 1: Yes.

[00:17:55] kelly: But like you said, definitely get in there and see what you can do because.[00:18:00] 

[00:18:00] Track 1: Yes. You just get in there and see what you can do. And I mean, I wanna piggyback on what you said about that's how you cope. Because whether she's complete, whether she's one, maybe her screaming the FBO is what's getting her through this contraction. it, may not be like an emergency, because sometimes you hear screaming and you're like, oh sky like, oh my,

Right? So it may not be any emergency. I just, it could be like how they cope. Get in there. That's the point. Get in there, see what you can do to help. Cuz it could be just, Hey, did you know if you sit on the ball, it'll, it'll kind of, you know, right.

[00:18:35] kelly: I was gonna say, evaluate is that how they wanna cope with the full 10 centimeters? If they're one, you know, maybe some other options,

[00:18:42] Track 1: Exactly have, we do have patients that'll say I just wanna be checked to where I am. That'll tell me if I can go any further. but I do tell at least the natural patients, like when you get to the point where you absolutely know that you can't do anymore, you anymore.

I don't have a.

[00:18:58] kelly: probably.

[00:18:59] Track 1: Yeah [00:19:00] Probably have baby. It's it's like,

[00:19:02] kelly: mine.

[00:19:03] Track 1: unless they're mal 

[00:19:04] kelly: fun.

[00:19:05] Track 1: and gosh, Kelly, now I take my superwoman back. you, you You get the superwoman. you also, but you vacuum. Honey Vacuum. No, no, no, no, no. And that's another thing. When I say like that, my provider heard me when she put Cion on my chest or second baby.

It was like, normally people were like, oh baby. I looked at her, she looked at me and she was like, you're good. She knew what my concern was, . So now I can embrace my baby. like

because like it's, there is no epidural, so you are going to feel everything. And I'm like, oh, we'll give you lidocaine.

And it's like, yeah, but I have to feel that. It's not really fair. Like there's no win. Like there's no win. I have to feel that first. No. So yeah,

[00:19:57] kelly: dental floss feeling of, with my first, cuz my [00:20:00] epidural was Right. I wa I was tolerable, but it was light I felt. all the things. I felt the ring of fire. I felt the contractions and I felt the dental floss going through when they were, but luckily I did not the sharp pain of the needle.

That is the only thing. I didn't feel but it just feels like they're flossing. Your vagina,

[00:20:17] Track 1: Well let's talk about repairs. What, what's, what? What's with this dad? Stitch? I, I mean, what is, I was given one and I was given one, and I was told that I was given one, and at that point I knew nothing about what a dad stitch was. It was literally like, okay, honey, and just another for your husband. And I'm like,

[00:20:39] kelly: help 

[00:20:42] Track 1: When I found out what it was, and like I said, I love, I loved my midwife, but when I found out that that's, I was like, the hell entitles him to anything here. 

[00:20:53] kelly: stitch is right at the introdu, which is just the entrance. So just makes it hurt more and harder[00:21:00] get in So how does that help anyone?

[00:21:03] Track 1: well, let's see. I've readed the, the horror of that, but, you know, it's, it is what it is. I can't go back. . So, birthing people, if anyone mentions a partner Stitch, tell them to take it for themselves. Tell them to do it on themselves because No. Mm.

[00:21:21] kelly: not a clinical thing

[00:21:22] Track 1: If they want a stitch, they can go next.

They can put their legs in the stirs next and they their stitch.

[00:21:30] kelly: there is, you could call it an epidemic. a history of poor outcomes for birthing people of color. And I think that as providers, we need to be aware and we need. Search for ways to improve those outcomes. what experience and thoughts do you have, as a woman of color how these outcomes are?

[00:21:52] Track 1: You know, it's very unfortunate that women of color are not, afforded the same healthcare opportunities. [00:22:00] And it's like, yeah, we can go to the same doctor, but are things being explained to us in the same manner? specifically for those practices who target women of color, and especially in the impoverished communities when they're not completely honest.

You know, you, you open these clinics, and you're caring for these women while they're pregnant, but you're not open and honest with them telling them that they won't see you at delivery. So they're gonna deliver with someone who knows nothing about them or their medical history.

You know, we women of color who are not even being told by their provider. Simple things like take baby aspirin during your pregnancy. That's specifically why me in my, in my practice, in my doula business, I never turn away a woman of color because of money.

Because we are our biggest support at the moment until we get things turned around in this country. Until we are heard, until our concerns are heard, until when we say things don't feel right in labor and delivery or after surgery or whatever it may be, that we get to go home with our babies because someone came and investigated what was wrong.

Someone came to find out why there's blood in the [00:23:00] Foley bag, why legs aren't being felt. You know why, blood pressure is so high when we're complaining and saying that things hurt and this doesn't feel right. Don't label us as angry and as complaining cuz our concerns are just as valid as anyone else's.

Hear us and take that action. And that can be the difference that could save us in our babies, that can have moms and babies leaving 

[00:23:24] kelly: do you remember when we took that, class, talking about the cuss you 

[00:23:28] Track 1: Yes 

[00:23:29] kelly: I'm concerned, I'm uncomfortable and this this is a safety issue. And I feel like doesn't happen very often, at least where I practice, but when I have concerns and when people want to kind of just say, oh, it's no big deal. if I have persistent concerns, I feel like using those words and saying, I'm concerned, uncomfortable with this situation.

I believe this is a safety issue, feel like I get heard a little bit easier and it's, easier to assert myself. And so [00:24:00] I feel like if everybody had those tools to be able to speak like that, it's not as aggressive as some other things that we could say tend to take you a little bit more Um but yeah, I just think that investigating concerns the reason for that concern until you've investigated it multiple.

[00:24:27] Track 1: Exactly, and I think that's one of the main reasons why doulas or anyone, any type of support that that knows. the red flags or the warning signs or things like that because when I tell any client, woman of color, one birthing person, period, if, if I've getting taken this time to get to know you since early pregnancy, and here we are and you've had these concerns and things are being said to you, I tell my clients what it is.

I'm like, listen, vaginal check. Opens up opportunity for infection if you want to be checked every hour. If [00:25:00] that's your wish, that's your wish. But I say things to them like, I'll remind you to say, are you okay with that? You know, can, can you tell your provider what you're feeling like? You told me how you're feeling at this.

I think. . That's one of the most important things about doulas because we take the time that we spend all this time with our clients and they come into labor and delivery. Maybe they're there for three days, maybe they're there for 12 hours or less. But we've taken this time to figure out the things, with each other so that when you're in the, in the labor and delivery room and you're saying like, ouch.

This, this f bomb hurts, and I know that you've never. , at least in the past six months that we've been working together. You've never used that type of language or things. I'm like, oh, well hey Kelly, this is outside of you. Is there something that you wanna say? Like there has to be some type of helping to advocate.

Everyone doesn't know how to advocate for themselves. Like, Hey, I don't think that this pain is normal. I encourage you to talk to your provider about what this may be. I had a client at a hospital that I will not disclose woman of color. she was an attorney. and she continued to say [00:26:00] my pain is here and it wasn't there before.

and it's getting worse. The nurse just kept saying It's okay. , it's time for delivery. That's what it is. You're, you're having a baby. And as you get close, because that's what science says, right? That's what we're groomed to say. When you, when the closer you get there are gonna be some pains that break through your epidural that we just can't control.

We know that that's true because that's what science says, but there was never an investigation after she had her baby and they went to take the epidural out, the catheter had already come out. That's why she was feeling the pain

right 

That's why she was feeling the pain. It was time for her to have a baby, but the epidural catheter had already dis, and the nurse says, yeah, we've been having that problem with this anesthesiologist before

And it's like, if you know that you've been having that problem, so check the back. It's just all about not being heard. I don't need to listen to you. I don't need to hear you. I don't need to take action because science said, and I know because it happens every day, every. [00:27:00] Day on my three day shifts, you know that pain just breaks through the contractions and you're gonna have a baby.

We know that. But there was also something else that could have helped her cope with that pain. So I just encourage any woman, woman of color, speak up and don't back down. And you don't have to be nasty, but speak up. Know your rights. I encourage every woman to research their birth right.

[00:27:28] kelly: Yeah.

[00:27:28] Track 1: because that's real.

Like every woman has a birthright. That's your body, that's your property, it's your right.

[00:27:34] kelly: Yeah.

[00:27:35] Track 1: So

[00:27:35] kelly: You talked earlier about birth plans, so we both, we know that your birth plan didn't completely come to fruition,

[00:27:45] Track 1: no 

[00:27:46] kelly: so what, what do you tell your clients when you're preparing them with a birth plan? what do you talk to them about what they can and can't control?

[00:27:53] Track 1: Yes So we talk about being realistic first can't You can't say that you want an iv. You [00:28:00] okay? You can, but you can't. Okay. Because it's.

[00:28:02] kelly: when you say that

[00:28:03] Track 1: It's right. You know, it's, it's like, because anything can happen and in a state of an emergency, you want us to have access or, or your providers to have access to anything.

I, I, I just tell my clients to be realistic. You absolutely can say, instead of me doing skin to skin, I would prefer you give the baby to my partner. You can say that. You can say, I would or wouldn't prefer erythromycin or vitamin K. is that an informed decision that you're making?

Do you know? You know, but you can say that. You can't say things like , like, I wanna deliver my baby while I'm in the middle of a, a flip because I'm a gymnast and it's gonna look good for my social media though. Be realistic. Right? Be realistic. you can say, I would prefer to have. No donor blood. There are forms and consents that you'll sign for that, but you know, those are your and your birth plan.

You would just really wanna be realistic. I would prefer if you didn't wipe the verdicts off my baby [00:29:00] so we could bond. You can say things like that. you can say, I would prefer a baby stays with me at all times, unless it's. Safer for the baby to be at than in the nursery or the nicu. I would prefer to have the bath done in front of me depending on whatever the hospital policy is.

Your nurse can try to accommodate something. Just be realistic and know that your health team, your care team is gonna do what they can to as long as it's within safety and within policy. But Don't think that because you put it on paper that unicorns are gonna show up to your delivery. Cause 

[00:29:30] kelly: think a lot of the culture right now, and it's understandably, is women are just trying to take back control, which I get. That's great. And

[00:29:37] Track 1: Yes.

[00:29:38] kelly: part of that is keeping everybody safe

[00:29:42] Track 1: Yeah. 

Yeah 

[00:29:43] kelly: things cannot be planned. Sometimes we can't tell the baby how to act 

[00:29:48] Track 1: Yeah.

[00:29:49] kelly: to respond to labor.

[00:29:51] Track 1: Yeah 

[00:29:51] kelly: tell your body how to respond to labor. So You always make a decision. You always decide given the facts. Like right now your [00:30:00] baby is. may not recover this point. It's been long enough that statistics show that if we don't go back to the or, we will have a bad outcome. that you can decline. I have seen women decline and we've had bad outcomes, but just know that when we are doing these things and saying these things, even if you've planned to not have a C-section, things happen. Not to scare anyone, but use medical technology save lives, and sometimes we have to do that.

And so

[00:30:33] Track 1: Yeah 

[00:30:33] kelly: gonna have what you wanted, the number one thing that you want is a healthy mom and a healthy baby. And we'll do our very, very best to accommodate that.

[00:30:41] Track 1: Absolutely.

[00:30:42] kelly: process. We've talked about your deliveries. were your recoveries? was the postpartum period?

[00:30:50] Track 1: Oh, Physically postpartum was for the most part, other than the retained weight . It was pretty good. I had some pelvic floor issues with, with my [00:31:00] second baby, but, I just wanna shout out Dr. Sherra Posner.

[00:31:04] kelly: Hmm.

[00:31:04] Track 1: listen, ladies, take care of your pelvic floor.

after after delivery. I mean, let's just talk about wedding. A brand new car that wasn't 24 hours old after delivery cuz overlooked that pelvic floor. Physically postpartum It was pretty good it was mentally that took me a little over a year after both babies to bounce back from postpartum. attacked me hard and I thought that I was gonna be more prepared the second time because it's like, yeah, but why not make a cocktail out of it?

Why not mix 30 weeks of hyperemesis with, you know, a little bit of postpartum, just, It was, it was awful. . But the one thing that really got me through in both pregnancies that I noticed was the sun. Every day I got up and it was an opportunity to take a walk just to, as long as the sun was [00:32:00] out, my front door was open, my blinds were open, and I was happy.

the most part, you know, the random outburst of crying and checking and anxiety and all that good stuff was, it could have gone away. But then at. , all the intrusive thoughts and resentment and everything just like, just piled up at the bottom of my bed and stared at me throughout the night. I just could not wait for the sun to come back up.

[00:32:27] kelly: end up having any treatment for postpartum symptoms?

[00:32:30] Track 1: the second time I did. Talk with my provider and she prescribed me nice things. My postpartum anxiety and my intrusive thoughts told me that that was gonna harm my baby , I never got the opportunity to see if the effects worked.

my thoughts just wouldn't allow me to do it. And when she gave it to me, I was all in. I'm like, good. I wanna feel normal. I wanna feel better. And. . I started [00:33:00] taking them and then she was like, yeah, I, I remembered when she was like, it's just gonna take a little while to kick in.

And so I'm like, oh God, I'm gonna take them and then I'm gonna have to keep taking them and I have to keep taking them. And the thoughts just wouldn't let me refill my prescription , prescription . So, so yeah, I just, I, again, I bugged it out and I don't, I don't know if, if that was for the better or the worse.

I haven't figured that part out yet. I mean, he's three now, so we'll see.

[00:33:25] kelly: it go away at a year for both of them?

[00:33:27] Track 1: for Julian, it was like right at a year, before fall, like I just, I remember feeling like myself again by September. with Cion, it was a little, a year and a half actually, because my cycle had came back, so my milk supply at that moment, taken a plunge.

I mean, all the things were hitting me, so it just kind of didn't go away. And I think once we made the decision to continue to nurse, I felt better. half.

[00:33:54] kelly: are all things that you have

[00:33:55] Track 1: Oh 

[00:33:56] kelly: when have anxiety and have to go back and forth and try to figure [00:34:00] out how to handle that, that's so hard.

[00:34:02] Track 1: and at that point it was Covid. So they're talking about vaccines and I'm like, oh my gosh, am I gonna breastfeed him? I'm not. At this point he had broken out from like so many things just randomly and we couldn't figure out what it was. So postpartum was like, yeah, you got a lot going on. I'm just gonna stay here with you for a little bit longer.

So , so you're not alone. . Which which was great.

[00:34:24] kelly: also the hormones when you're breastfeeding and then when you stop breastfeeding, there's a whole shift that has to happen. And so then you have other rollercoaster that you're gonna deal with. And it's just, mean, I nurse for 18 months pump. those hormones stick that the longer that you're doing it, the, the longer the

And then you have to deal with like the whole shift and it's like to 

feel like yourself and 

until all that's over

[00:34:53] Track 1: Yeah so if that was December, January, 2021, we decided to stop pumping. I'm [00:35:00] like, listen, , the factory is treading down halfway. You can continue to get your supply from here, but it's a direct supply. The extra just wasn't a part of life anymore. I just could not do it. But yeah, he, he hasn't nursed in year. be four in June, so we're good.

[00:35:18] kelly: So then did you do any therapy or any other 

[00:35:21] Track 1: Oh, yes. Therapy. oh. oh Is that treatment or is that like happy hour

sorry, me, , I love my therapy hour. It's like, Kids, I'm. Don't bother me. I get to be alone. I to vent, I get to cry. I have to, this is not, if I have never been so consistent in any type of self-care in my life, I will go to That's what I will I encourage it It's like my insurance will pay you You'll listen to me cry and you'll offer suggestions on how I could

better myself 

[00:35:55] kelly: magic

[00:35:56] Track 1: Wow

[00:35:58] kelly: So are lots of [00:36:00] options for to treat postpartum health disorders Right And some of us get a nice little cocktail of just about everything the intrusive thoughts the anxiety the 

[00:36:10] Track 1: Yeah 

[00:36:11] kelly: the 

[00:36:12] Track 1: Yes All 

[00:36:14] kelly: of us choose medication Some of us our intrusive thoughts won't let us take medication 

[00:36:20] Track 1: That's 

[00:36:21] kelly: that you don't have options So therapy is an option Um long as you I mean your your OB can help you the option that is best for you 

[00:36:32] Track 1: And you know what I wanna give a shout out to Chandra Chandra reached out to me after Cion It was like Girl there is this amazing breastfeeding support group in this postpartum support group and we support each other and we listen to each other And I enjoyed driving out there from Maryland to Virginia to be with other women to listen to them Vent and express themselves about the same things that I was feeling and talk [00:37:00] about really not feeling alone it was a a group therapy you know it was so shout out to her because that really really dug me out It gave me the opportunity to get outta the house during during daylight It gave me the opportunity to be around other moms and other little cute babies so shout out to her cuz she was a vital part of my of my healing I can't I don't know how Left that out Yes there are there are options 

Yeah 

[00:37:24] kelly: anything that happened that made you feel out of control? any part of your labor and delivery experience 

[00:37:30] Track 1: The only, the only part of my labor and delivery experience that I felt like I was so out of control and I, I could have climbed the wall. That ring of fire, man. That ring of fire. Like nothing. Nothing. You just, you're either like a super OG and you breathe through it or just go boss to the wall. Like why I

[00:37:50] kelly: So you 

[00:37:51] Track 1: like,

[00:37:51] kelly: trying to get away from it.

[00:37:53] Track 1: I was the one who chose foul language as my outlet.

You know, just I, I, [00:38:00] I literally, my sister will never let me live this down. I screamed like it burns it. Mother

[00:38:07] kelly: loud 

enough 

[00:38:11] Track 1: My mom was like,

[00:38:12] kelly: hall, right? Yes.

[00:38:13] Track 1: everyone, I'm sure everyone was like, whatever she's having, we

don't

So, yeah, that I felt so out of control. I apologized to everyone

and

reassured that I had nothing to apologize for

[00:38:27] kelly: all the time that bad words are that we've all heard bad words and they're okay in the

[00:38:31] Track 1: Yes.

[00:38:31] kelly: room.

[00:38:32] Track 1: I tell them this is, this is the space that this is allowed. You can say all the things because

[00:38:37] kelly: We're all 

[00:38:38] Track 1: I've lifted where that's it, you know, so there.

[00:38:43] kelly: do you have any stories that you wanna share that anything that sticks out is like maybe your favorite , funny favorite, just general experience.

[00:38:55] Track 1: I honestly think the funniest thing for me was when [00:39:00] I was my brother was having his baby the same year I remember her nurse. She, she had the epidural.

She was bawling, crying as she was delivering. And I told my mom, I said, I won't be getting the epidural cause it doesn't work anyway. And I swear I can remember. I won't say her name, but T was the nurse and she said, oh, okay. Are you gonna come deliver here? Cause I would love to be your nurse

[00:39:26] kelly: or 

[00:39:27] Track 1: No she wasn't.

No, I didn't deliver there. But just, when I think back at how the attitude that I took when I was like, oh, I Oh, it's gonna be good. Like I won't be doing that because you know And then I got there and I was just like, I literally asked my midwife, can I have a Tylenol?

Like I don't want the epidural, but I do want a Tylenol cause, cause, hey, you can't , you can't stick me. But this hurts. Like doesn't anyone, I don't have any funny stories, but why doesn't anyone tell us like, What is someone gonna open up and just tell us all the [00:40:00] things? Tell us that we're gonna ugly cry.

Tell us that we're gonna use the F bomb. Tell us that our nipples are gonna hurt. Tell us that the sits bath is gonna like tell us that the the spray bottle is gonna be our friend after vaginal delivery. Like why? What do people wanna say? Oh, it's gonna be lovely. You should take the matching outfits.

You should do this and that. No boo . Why you didn't

me to take some witch hazel? What's the 

Tell me the rub and breath. Smoke around So they'll heal. Like I wanna know those things. I'll figure out the cute things later. So you have to do of those me the nasty secrets. Yeah.

[00:40:35] kelly: I love it. Well Charice, is there anything else that you wanted to share that you thought the world needed to know?

[00:40:41] Track 1: Now, , 

[00:40:42] kelly: No.

[00:40:42] Track 1: other than if your baby was born on February 15th, you

are welcome 

[00:40:46] kelly: Yes 

[00:40:48] Track 1: that baby the, the greatest thing that's ever happened to you. And don't let that little one forget it.

[00:40:54] kelly: you're so crazy

[00:40:57] Track 1: Oh[00:41:00] 

my hope all of you are miserable on Valentine's Day, so one more Scorpios

[00:41:08] kelly: It's hilarious.

[00:41:09] Track 1: Geez 

man. 

[00:41:10] kelly: All right. Thank you so much, Charney. If you want to connect with Charney, just go to tell your us

[00:41:17] Track 1: www.birthlovecare.com and get yourself one of the coolest doulas you'll

ever meet 

[00:41:24] kelly: and Future Delivery Nurse and Future Midwife.

[00:41:27] Track 1: future delivery nu