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March 4, 2024

Childbirth Attorney Gina Mundy's Guide to a Safer Childbirth

Childbirth Attorney Gina Mundy's Guide to a Safer Childbirth
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Season 2

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Embark on a transformative journey through the landscape of childbirth with our esteemed guest, Gina Mundy, a childbirth attorney and author, whose insights promise to arm future parents with the tools for a safer and more empowered birthing experience. Imagine entering one of life's most significant events, not with fear, but with the confidence of a well-rehearsed plan, as Gina guides us through the essential steps of preparation and the importance of establishing open lines of communication with your healthcare team. Her experience in the courtroom and stories shared in "A Parents' Guide to a Safer Childbirth" serve as a beacon, illuminating the path towards avoiding trauma and ensuring the well-being of both mother and child.

Together with Gina, we navigate the often underappreciated intricacies of selecting a birth team that resonates with your personal birth philosophy, the indispensable emotional support provided by labor and delivery nurses, and the empowering role of doulas during labor. Our conversation uncovers the sheer importance of asking the right questions—be it about interventions like Pitocin or understanding all possible outcomes. Gina's book has become a touchstone for medical professionals, spreading within the community, advocating for practices that honor the natural labor process while safeguarding against potential complications.

Closing the loop, we celebrate the shared triumphs and challenges of parenting, from packed lunches to the profound joy of welcoming a new life into the world. We are reminded that the tools and knowledge we share are not just for the delivery room—they are the underpinnings of a healthy family life. Our listeners are left with an inspiring tapestry of stories, advice, and heartfelt reflections that transcend the podcast, influencing real-world decisions and outcomes, and contributing to a world where every childbirth is a story of informed choices, safety, and joy.

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Medical Disclaimer:
This podcast is intended as a safe space for women to share their birth experiences. It is not intended to provide medical advice. Each woman’s medical course of action is individual and may not appropriately transfer to another similar situation. Please speak to your medical provider before making any medical decisions. Additionally, it is important to keep in mind that evidence based practice evolves as our knowledge of science improves. To the best of my ability I will attempt to present the most current ACOG and AWHONN recommendations at the time the podcast is recorded, but that may not necessarily reflect the best practices at the time the podcast is heard. Additionally, guests sharing their stories have the right to autonomy in their medical decisions, and may share their choice to go against current practice recommendations. I intend to hold space for people to share their decisions. I will attempt to share the current recommendations so that my audience is informed, but it is up to each individual to choose what is best for them.

Chapters

00:00 - Preparing for Childbirth

08:00 - Choosing the Right Birth Team

15:28 - Important Questions for Doctor Discussions

32:01 - The Importance of Doulas in Childbirth

42:39 - Labor and Delivery Nurse Book Review

57:49 - Importance of Informed Birth Choices

01:05:12 - Elective C-Sections

01:13:46 - Helping Families Have a Healthy Baby

Transcript
WEBVTT

00:00:00.140 --> 00:00:03.428
Hello, Today I have with me Gina Mundy.

00:00:03.428 --> 00:00:08.464
Gina is the mother of three and an attorney that specializes in childbirth cases.

00:00:08.464 --> 00:00:13.663
For over two decades, she has analyzed the mistakes that are made during labor and delivery.

00:00:13.663 --> 00:00:22.172
Drawing on this knowledge, she has authored the book A Parents' Guide to a Safer Childbirth to help parents prevent these mistakes and have a healthy baby.

00:00:22.172 --> 00:00:30.731
Rather than merely getting involved after an unfortunate mistake was made, Gina has taken a proactive approach by getting involved before childbirth.

00:00:30.731 --> 00:00:37.014
Today, Gina will be sharing about her new book and giving tips on how parents can have a safer childbirth.

00:00:37.014 --> 00:00:39.523
Gina welcome and thank you for joining me.

00:00:39.884 --> 00:00:41.490
Kelly, thank you for having me.

00:00:41.490 --> 00:00:45.262
I gotta tell your audience we just had the best pre-show chat ever.

00:00:45.262 --> 00:00:48.630
You are amazing, so I am super excited to be here today.

00:00:49.332 --> 00:00:50.173
Thank you, and I was.

00:00:50.173 --> 00:00:52.371
I really enjoyed getting to know about what you're doing.

00:00:52.371 --> 00:01:12.653
I kind of feel like we're kindred spirits and kind of approaching this before birth time, where parents can really take advantage of the knowledge that they can gain by truly preparing for childbirth so that they can enter this space confident and calm and really knowing what they can do and what choices they have.

00:01:12.941 --> 00:01:14.323
Oh yeah, 100%.

00:01:14.323 --> 00:01:15.688
I mean it's such a big day.

00:01:15.688 --> 00:01:23.046
It's a day most moms dream about their entire life, from when they're a little girl, playing with their baby dolls.

00:01:23.046 --> 00:01:26.887
I know I've played with my baby dolls and always thought of that big day.

00:01:26.887 --> 00:01:29.516
It's important to be ready 100%.

00:01:29.777 --> 00:01:32.382
Yeah, and I always think about how much planning goes into a wedding.

00:01:32.382 --> 00:01:52.688
I wonder to myself, why are we not planning the birth as much as the wedding, but in the sense that we need to not necessarily plan the twinkle lights and the lavender oil and all of this stuff, but really understanding all of the things that go into the birth and all of the options and how we feel about all of those things?

00:01:52.688 --> 00:02:00.873
You would have an opinion of roses versus lilies right, you would know if you want them in your bouquet or not.

00:02:00.873 --> 00:02:20.205
But why aren't we looking into pitocin versus a cook's catheter or whatever it is and really learning what the pros and cons and when you might want to have those introduced to your birth and what circumstances would have to happen for that to be okay, in really working through our emotions on that situation?

00:02:20.445 --> 00:02:22.051
Well, you are so right on.

00:02:22.051 --> 00:02:22.995
I love it.

00:02:22.995 --> 00:02:31.021
And I think in my book I don't say wedding, I say, hey, you plan everything in life vacations, financial plan, you name it.

00:02:31.021 --> 00:02:33.187
So why are we not doing it for the birth?

00:02:33.187 --> 00:02:57.808
And let me tell you in my book, chapter one, all of the lessons from the baby cases whether it's a lesson from the family that was involved, whether it was from a delivery team or the medical experts on the case these are the lessons that we can learn from the baby cases and keep in mind as a lesson you're learning from it in order to prevent it from happening in the future.

00:02:57.808 --> 00:03:04.691
But lesson number one by far is the most important lesson and it is from the families.

00:03:04.691 --> 00:03:14.008
You must prepare for childbirth and you're going to be able to make better decisions when you're ready and you're going to have that streamlined communication with your delivery team.

00:03:14.008 --> 00:03:17.923
There's so many different benefits to being ready for the big day.

00:03:17.923 --> 00:03:19.068
You know the families.

00:03:19.229 --> 00:03:21.618
I hope your audience understands what a childbirth case is.

00:03:21.618 --> 00:03:26.794
I did not know my profession existed until I got into it 21 years ago.

00:03:26.794 --> 00:03:40.250
So, just so your audience understands, when I'm saying childbirth case, this involves a case that has to do with the birth of a baby, and baby is not born healthy, permanently not healthy.

00:03:40.250 --> 00:03:43.842
Something went wrong, a complication, a mistake.

00:03:43.842 --> 00:03:50.163
Sometimes baby may pass away during childbirth and sometimes mom will pass away during childbirth.

00:03:50.182 --> 00:03:55.721
So these are what I have seen over 21 years and this is this is important stuff.

00:03:55.721 --> 00:04:07.937
So when I and I can tell you the families in this case, it's like they have like the minds that we're all guilty of bad things only happen to other people and you don't prepare.

00:04:07.937 --> 00:04:16.283
You're already in a very vulnerable state of mind anyway, given childbirth and everything else, but it's just.

00:04:16.283 --> 00:04:20.357
It leaves you in a position where you can't make those good decisions.

00:04:20.357 --> 00:04:26.278
And let me tell you, in my cases, the families are one decision or minutes from a healthy baby.

00:04:26.278 --> 00:04:34.567
So having an understanding of what you're getting into working with your delivery team by far the number one lesson you can learn from a childbirth case.

00:04:35.189 --> 00:04:55.781
Yeah, and I feel like, as a healthcare professional, I can tell when either the preparation hasn't occurred or the preparation occurred but the emotions surrounding that haven't been addressed, and so then there's beliefs that will prevent that person or family from being able to make those decisions in an emergency situation.

00:04:55.781 --> 00:05:17.404
And I feel like, even if things turn out okay, the trauma that occurs because of the lack of preparation or the lack of really exploring what comes up for you when you think about some of these interventions and getting clarity on that, having not done that and not having a thorough understanding, that is what leads to trauma.

00:05:17.404 --> 00:05:27.040
And if it doesn't lead to a lawsuit because there's no adverse event, it certainly will lead to the patient complaining about their experience in the hospital.

00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:49.651
And so I feel like if we are able to get to the bottom of what makes people feel out of control in the labor and delivery space, we can all kind of come together and solve a lot of the problems that we're seeing, come up with the patient's satisfiers and also what may lead to those minutes that turned into a bad outcome.

00:05:49.892 --> 00:06:18.879
And I think it all comes down to communication and understanding each other, and what I'm seeing is a trend of healthcare professionals going into one corner and saying I'm just trying to help you have a healthy baby, and doing things and communicating in ways that are somewhat manipulative in order to get the patient to do what they want, and then I see the patients resisting and becoming incredibly defensive and not being open and honest with their healthcare providers, and that really sets up the scene for nobody getting what they want.

00:06:18.879 --> 00:06:28.918
So if we're not working together as a team and we're both just trying to push the other person to get what we want instead of understanding how to come together, that is a huge reason.

00:06:28.918 --> 00:06:36.904
I think that plays into the maternal mortality rate in this country and the neonatal mortality rate in this country, because something is wrong.

00:06:36.904 --> 00:06:44.920
We have the top mortality rates for both maternal and neonatal deaths in the developed world, and it shouldn't be that way.

00:06:45.100 --> 00:06:52.403
You know, callie, when I was hired into this field 21 years ago, literally my first case was February 2003,.

00:06:52.403 --> 00:06:55.410
I was hired into a team of over 20 of us.

00:06:55.410 --> 00:06:57.033
That's all we did with these cases.

00:06:57.033 --> 00:07:10.420
So you know, sometimes when I talk to somebody like you and I hear the whole the doctor, patient issues, with doctors trying to do the right thing, patients defensive and then just not working together.

00:07:10.420 --> 00:07:12.125
It's just incredibly hard to hear.

00:07:12.125 --> 00:07:23.884
So my book is very work together with the team to make good decisions because your delivery team they're so important, along with your doctor, your doctor head to your delivery team.

00:07:23.884 --> 00:07:32.309
I mean, ultimately you guys talking to Callie are responsible as delivery team bringing babies safely into this world.

00:07:32.509 --> 00:07:37.069
You know, when I have the childbirth case, it's typically the delivery team's care.

00:07:37.069 --> 00:07:41.646
You know that's at issue and it's analyzed more than any other aspect of the case.

00:07:41.646 --> 00:07:47.725
But it's important to understand now and I can also throw out there I love my labor and delivery nurses.

00:07:47.725 --> 00:07:53.478
You guys are absolutely amazing humans.

00:07:53.478 --> 00:08:01.740
Most of my labor and delivery nurses, even from my cases, are amazing and I've met very few who are not.

00:08:01.740 --> 00:08:05.355
But I am just a huge respect to labor and delivery nurses.

00:08:05.355 --> 00:08:16.413
You guys are the ones at the patient's bedside and I can tell you, in my cases my labor and delivery nurses show more human emotion than any other witness in the case from the medical side.

00:08:16.413 --> 00:08:18.319
So you guys have all.

00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:23.463
You guys always blow me away and there's always so many times we're hanging with a nurse and it's like her first lawsuit.

00:08:23.463 --> 00:08:25.370
So they're always few and far between.

00:08:25.653 --> 00:08:34.763
But going back to the delivery team and here at issue, your doctor heads your delivery team and your doctor is typically not at the hospital.

00:08:34.763 --> 00:08:37.190
It's your delivery team that's bedside with you.

00:08:37.190 --> 00:08:52.323
So just doing whatever you can, I think even during your pregnancy, and making sure that you have a good doctor, a good doctor that's going to communicate with your delivery team, a good doctor that's going to communicate with you, is just so incredibly important.

00:08:52.323 --> 00:09:01.910
I have a chapter on how to pick the good doctor, so I have been analyzing or BGYNs, because they it's really, I say the delivery teams care.

00:09:01.910 --> 00:09:04.682
At issue, the doctor is the head of the delivery team.

00:09:04.682 --> 00:09:08.230
Okay, they had it, so they're captain of the ship.

00:09:08.230 --> 00:09:14.658
So you know, constantly in our field we have to say, okay, is this a good doctor or a bad doctor?

00:09:14.658 --> 00:09:17.952
And we have to do it because you cannot stick a bad doctor in front of a jury.

00:09:17.952 --> 00:09:22.037
You're going to get pummeled in court room, cannot do it.

00:09:22.037 --> 00:09:27.011
So I have a whole chapter on how to pick a good one and what to look for.

00:09:27.159 --> 00:09:38.864
But yeah, a huge part of that is how your doctor talks to you, how your doctor communicates with you, because you can guarantee you how they talk to you and how much time they give you and understanding.

00:09:38.864 --> 00:09:42.427
And how they communicate with you is likely how they communicate with their delivery team.

00:09:42.427 --> 00:09:47.167
So you want a doctor Kelly for everyone who cannot seek Kelly.

00:09:47.167 --> 00:09:56.570
She is shaking her head up and down in agreements but it's important because, again, your doctor Captain of the ship is not at the hospital.

00:09:56.570 --> 00:10:02.869
He's relying on the labor and delivery nurses or residents or midwife to communicate how you're doing with that.

00:10:02.869 --> 00:10:05.349
Then she or she makes the recommendation.

00:10:05.349 --> 00:10:07.948
It's kind of screwy when you think of it.

00:10:07.948 --> 00:10:11.563
I mean, the lead person is not even at the hospital, but it is what it is.

00:10:11.563 --> 00:10:22.183
So it's really important to want a team that's going to have a really good synergy with your doctor Picking that doctor.

00:10:22.224 --> 00:10:26.664
I just cannot emphasize enough how important that is that you're comfortable.

00:10:26.664 --> 00:10:29.448
Then you guys all get along on that big day.

00:10:29.448 --> 00:10:35.729
You have to be comfortable enough with your doctor to work with them, not be defensive, because that's when things go wrong.

00:10:35.729 --> 00:10:38.870
Trust me, I've talked to the families over the years.

00:10:38.870 --> 00:10:40.405
It's the hardest part of my job.

00:10:40.405 --> 00:10:47.248
It's the reason I wrote the book is to spare all their families from what these poor families have endured in the work of therapy.

00:10:47.700 --> 00:10:48.924
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

00:10:48.924 --> 00:10:59.469
Part of the coaching program I'm doing is helping people find a provider that they align with and helping them come up with questions because there's so little time in the visits.

00:10:59.469 --> 00:11:13.626
If you are meeting with a provider and insurance is paying for it, it's essentially you get like 15 minutes face time with your doctor per visit and it's not a lot because the doctor has a lot of things to talk about and they have a lot of assessments to do.

00:11:13.626 --> 00:11:22.547
So if you want to get in depth on what their delivery philosophy is, that's really hard and short of looking at their C-section rate, which I'm not even sure how to find.

00:11:24.221 --> 00:11:25.525
But people always talk about it.

00:11:25.525 --> 00:11:27.807
Yeah, you got to ask your doctor.

00:11:27.807 --> 00:11:29.826
They don't even tell me that stuff.

00:11:29.826 --> 00:11:34.568
And so the hospital reports it because the doctors will get shit if it's too high.

00:11:35.851 --> 00:11:38.922
Exactly, but it's not even the C-section rate, it's the.

00:11:38.922 --> 00:11:50.884
If you have a provider that's like, and it's okay if you align with this, if you want to schedule your induction, you want to get pitocin, have your water broken, get your epidural, have a baby, great, that's fine.

00:11:50.884 --> 00:12:17.072
But if you wanted to do things a little bit more naturally and you have a provider that likes to move things along, well, you're probably not going to have the best experience and then if there's a negative outcome, you're going to blame your provider because you felt pushed towards these interventions that you originally didn't want, and it doesn't matter if they're interventions that are for that specific purpose.

00:12:17.072 --> 00:12:26.447
If you didn't feel like you were a part of the team in coming up with that birth plan, then there's going to be some negative feelings and if there's a negative outcome, that's just, it's all bad.

00:12:26.447 --> 00:12:28.386
So I think it's really important.

00:12:28.386 --> 00:12:34.469
The first step would be to find, like you said, find a provider that you align with and also talk to them about how they manage their births.

00:12:34.469 --> 00:12:48.767
You can interview multiple providers and multiple teams, because it's not always the provider that you choose that's going to be the person that delivers you if you wanted to have a natural birth, because if you go into labor when your provider is not available, then you're probably not going to get that provider.

00:12:48.767 --> 00:12:57.644
So you really kind of have to do your homework and talk to everybody about will they support your preferences and under what circumstances.

00:12:57.644 --> 00:13:05.169
Would then they start to recommend other interventions that you may not be comfortable with and under what circumstances are you comfortable with them?

00:13:05.340 --> 00:13:14.488
Because I, going into my first birth, don't think that I had my head wrapped around the possibility that there could be a fatal outcome for me and my baby.

00:13:14.488 --> 00:13:16.405
I knew it, but it just you know.

00:13:16.405 --> 00:13:25.732
Like you said, it won't happen to me, that happens to other people, and I never really considered that I might need a C-section to save my life or my baby's life.

00:13:25.732 --> 00:13:30.390
I knew it, but it wasn't something that I fully understood.

00:13:30.390 --> 00:13:38.731
I understood it for my second because I was a labor and delivery nurse, but also that there's other reasons that C-sections are recommended.

00:13:38.731 --> 00:13:45.111
It's not necessarily an emergency and it is such a spectrum of reasons and everybody's comfort level is different.

00:13:45.111 --> 00:13:47.609
So you may have a provider that pushes C-section.

00:13:47.609 --> 00:13:54.428
They feel more safe getting the baby out under certain circumstances that may not align with your preferences.

00:13:54.639 --> 00:14:00.653
You may want to try some different things before you go to the C-section.

00:14:00.653 --> 00:14:04.009
You may want a little bit more time for your delivery, for example.

00:14:04.009 --> 00:14:10.043
They're and I'm saying this because there are moms that I've taken care of that have that opinion they would prefer to.

00:14:10.043 --> 00:14:14.885
As long as everybody is safe, as long as the baby looks good on the monitor.

00:14:14.885 --> 00:14:17.572
Category one is what we consider good.

00:14:17.572 --> 00:14:28.711
We know that everything is neurologically intact, as long as mom is safe, vital signs are good and there are no extenuating circumstances or underlying medical conditions.

00:14:28.711 --> 00:14:39.489
There are many birthing people that would prefer to continue to labor, and there may be providers that don't want to do that, and so it doesn't make anybody wrong.

00:14:39.489 --> 00:14:41.346
It just makes them wrong for each other.

00:14:41.346 --> 00:15:00.003
And so it's really, really important that you don't have that dynamic in your birth, because it's not possible to feel safe with a provider that doesn't feel safe proceeding with your wishes, because you're not going to feel safe and the provider's not going to feel safe, and that just sets up the situation for failure 100%.

00:15:00.419 --> 00:15:07.225
So at the end of that chapter I throw in 20 questions that everybody should ask their doctor.

00:15:07.265 --> 00:15:12.630
Yeah, check them out and you know what those are 20 questions that we ask a doctor in every single case.

00:15:12.630 --> 00:15:20.923
So if a doctor's ever been involved in a lawsuit with me, they've been asked these questions, no matter they're an expert or a defendant doctor, whoever it is.

00:15:20.923 --> 00:15:27.702
But we ask these questions to again figure out who stick them in front of the jury and their answer.

00:15:27.702 --> 00:15:31.873
Sometimes, you know, I'll use to discredit them, depending on the doctor.

00:15:31.873 --> 00:15:39.451
It's obviously that would not be a doctor on my side if the case used it to discredit them or maybe even bolster their credibility in case.

00:15:39.451 --> 00:15:42.668
So these are really important questions that everybody should ask.

00:15:42.799 --> 00:15:52.850
Now I was just asked in a podcast earlier and they were like OK, great thing, I've got this list of questions, but are you going to be worried about offending the doctor?

00:15:52.850 --> 00:15:54.565
And I'm like what?

00:15:54.565 --> 00:15:57.727
No, these are not offensive questions.

00:15:57.727 --> 00:16:00.187
I mean, yeah, you're not deposing him.

00:16:00.187 --> 00:16:05.107
You know I may be in a situation where I'm deposing a doctor, so I'm like you know an adversarial proceeding.

00:16:05.107 --> 00:16:08.003
So, yeah, I may be offensive, but the patient, this would not.

00:16:08.003 --> 00:16:14.120
If a doctor is offended because you're asking them these questions, ok, red flag right, right.

00:16:14.403 --> 00:16:15.385
That is your answer.

00:16:16.059 --> 00:16:16.280
Yeah.

00:16:16.280 --> 00:16:17.306
So that's a red flag.

00:16:17.306 --> 00:16:21.304
The doctor is probably not right for you, but you and listen.

00:16:21.304 --> 00:16:24.226
Here's the deal too, and I said this in another podcast.

00:16:24.226 --> 00:16:31.169
I'm like take my book in, throw me under the bus, be like I read this book from a childbirth attorney.

00:16:31.169 --> 00:16:33.788
She only sees the things that go wrong.

00:16:33.788 --> 00:16:46.991
She has the knowledge and the understanding on how to make it go right, and this is what she wants me to ask you and I've listened to a podcast with Kelly and Gina Mundy said if you don't like it, email her.

00:16:46.991 --> 00:16:53.312
Yeah, email on my website, GinaMundycom says email Gina.

00:16:53.312 --> 00:16:54.544
It goes to my phone.

00:16:54.544 --> 00:16:57.448
I will have it, likely in an hour or two.

00:16:57.448 --> 00:16:59.245
I will be responding to your doctor.

00:16:59.245 --> 00:17:03.984
So that's what I say, because there's a lot of things in there, because I do.

00:17:03.984 --> 00:17:05.967
You just talked about interventions.

00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:09.890
And interventions are incredibly important.

00:17:09.890 --> 00:17:12.188
Listen, we haven't talked about this.

00:17:12.188 --> 00:17:17.231
Chapter 11 of my book goes over the most common facts and issues in a baby case.

00:17:17.231 --> 00:17:26.589
The number one, most common fact in my cases when there's a mistake and complication and baby does not do well is the drug ketosin.

00:17:26.589 --> 00:17:29.708
That's a huge decision.

00:17:29.708 --> 00:17:34.490
So I've seen ketosin induction has gone wrong since February 2003.

00:17:34.490 --> 00:17:44.510
And I mean I've traveled the United States many times, meeting with delivery teams, going over this drug, researching this drug, cross-examining our experts on this drug.

00:17:44.510 --> 00:17:47.910
I know the drug pamphlet for ketosin, the insert.

00:17:47.910 --> 00:17:49.605
I know that like the back of my hand.

00:17:49.605 --> 00:17:55.009
Okay, I know a lot about the drug, so I can tell you exactly how to have a safe ketosin induction.

00:17:55.009 --> 00:18:00.692
Now listen, doctors universally agree that ketosin is safe during labor.

00:18:00.692 --> 00:18:06.990
What they don't agree on is how to administer it, and you had said earlier some doctors may be more aggressive with it.

00:18:06.990 --> 00:18:08.352
Yep, those are my cases.

00:18:08.352 --> 00:18:11.223
Yeah, so that chapter.

00:18:11.223 --> 00:18:16.354
I'm a slow and steady, hit your sweet spot kind of chick with ketosin.

00:18:16.354 --> 00:18:22.203
I love how we're in the same page, though, and it goes over that Like that's what you want and it tells you why.

00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:24.365
Ketosin is a very individualized drug.

00:18:24.365 --> 00:18:27.251
How you respond to it depends on you.

00:18:27.251 --> 00:18:33.770
You're going to respond to it differently than somebody else and if you've never had the drug, nobody can tell you how you're going to respond to it.

00:18:33.770 --> 00:18:37.608
And listen, if the pit goes too high too fast, guess who it hurts?

00:18:37.608 --> 00:18:39.223
Baby, this is not okay.

00:18:39.223 --> 00:18:42.769
Anyway, again, you're going to go through my chapter.

00:18:42.769 --> 00:18:46.509
If you do choose to have an elected ketosin induction, that's your decision.

00:18:46.509 --> 00:18:47.172
That's fine.

00:18:47.172 --> 00:18:51.131
If my kids decided to have that, I would be like great sweeties.

00:18:51.131 --> 00:18:54.670
Just read chapter 14 and talk about it with your doctor.

00:18:54.670 --> 00:18:59.844
Your doctor may look at that chapter and be like this is great, or your doctor may not.

00:19:00.180 --> 00:19:02.814
But here's the thing Take my book in.

00:19:02.814 --> 00:19:06.266
If you're kind of nervous or you know you're not, I'm obviously.

00:19:06.266 --> 00:19:07.470
You can listen to me on the podcast.

00:19:07.470 --> 00:19:08.634
I'm a huge advocate.

00:19:08.634 --> 00:19:09.980
I'm an advocate by nature.

00:19:09.980 --> 00:19:17.394
But if you're not like me and you're like, okay, I want to have a healthy baby and a pertussin induction, take my book in, feel.

00:19:17.394 --> 00:19:18.497
This is what Gina said.

00:19:18.497 --> 00:19:19.318
This is how I will.

00:19:19.318 --> 00:19:20.823
Am I pertussin induction rock?

00:19:20.823 --> 00:19:22.453
Do you have a problem with this?

00:19:22.453 --> 00:19:31.221
And if they do, or anybody does, include a different doctor, you can again, you know I'm not a medical professional if you get to see the good and the bad.

00:19:31.221 --> 00:19:32.983
I only see the bad.

00:19:32.983 --> 00:19:38.462
So that's why I wrote the book to make sure the stuff's not happening to parents who want to have a healthy baby.

00:19:39.270 --> 00:19:47.212
Yeah, and speaking of pertussin, Talking about one of my favorite topics in a word oh my gosh, yeah.

00:19:47.212 --> 00:19:52.222
So at the hospitals that I work at, we have to document why we're not going up on the pertussin.

00:19:52.222 --> 00:19:52.631
What?

00:19:52.832 --> 00:19:55.077
okay, start documenting this in your charts.

00:19:55.077 --> 00:19:56.101
Gina said so.

00:19:56.101 --> 00:19:58.472
Patient had.

00:19:58.472 --> 00:20:01.020
The patient had a copy of Gina Mundi's book.

00:20:01.020 --> 00:20:03.472
I didn't up it.

00:20:03.472 --> 00:20:05.096
Yeah, oh, and.

00:20:05.096 --> 00:20:07.871
And at the end you can put in the baby was born healthy, right?

00:20:08.251 --> 00:20:13.604
right because, like you said, when you do hit the sweet spot, the baby is born in the right amount of time and healthy.

00:20:13.851 --> 00:20:19.284
And okay, can I just tell you something, kelly, I don't know if you've read the drug insert, just so you understand.

00:20:19.284 --> 00:20:20.248
And that drug insert.

00:20:20.248 --> 00:20:26.540
Number one Big bull letters we do not recommend using pertussin for 39 week induction.

00:20:26.540 --> 00:20:27.742
Doctors do it anyway.

00:20:27.742 --> 00:20:33.612
Number two you only need to go up to six to be equivalent to spontaneous.

00:20:33.612 --> 00:20:38.650
I just I wish you can't video this next time because I wish everybody could watch holy when I talk.

00:20:38.650 --> 00:20:39.452
It's so fun.

00:20:39.452 --> 00:20:41.259
She starts like jumping up and down.

00:20:41.259 --> 00:20:44.578
Somebody else knows within her brain.

00:20:44.578 --> 00:20:46.869
Okay, kelly, kelly and I again are on the same page.

00:20:46.869 --> 00:20:50.638
Six is the equivalent to spontaneous labor.

00:20:50.638 --> 00:20:52.603
There's no reason to go over 10.

00:20:52.603 --> 00:20:56.598
Okay, this is right and just everybody understands that.

00:20:56.618 --> 00:20:59.547
The pertussin induction is a really easy to understand.

00:20:59.547 --> 00:21:05.712
Let's just say, you know it's like one and they, you typically have an order to go to 20, so you can do one.

00:21:05.712 --> 00:21:13.837
Go by one, one, two, three, four or some doctors like to go up by two, two, four, six, eight.

00:21:13.837 --> 00:21:18.210
So it's actually a very simple discussion that you can have with your doctor.

00:21:18.210 --> 00:21:23.305
And then, just so you understand, your doctor writes the orders and then nurses, like Kelly, insert.

00:21:23.305 --> 00:21:26.232
Kelly's amazing at doing a good Pitocin induction.

00:21:26.232 --> 00:21:32.797
Kelly runs, you run the induction for your patients, right, yeah, so and then you can't.

00:21:32.797 --> 00:21:33.618
You can net.

00:21:33.618 --> 00:21:35.826
Oh my gosh, my blood is starting to boil.

00:21:35.826 --> 00:21:37.289
You know it's, it's hard.

00:21:37.289 --> 00:21:38.352
I'm like do do?

00:21:38.352 --> 00:21:42.119
Do hospitals not understand that this is the most my hospitals do?

00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:49.057
I jump up and down all the time about this and I advocate for just one nurse with one pitocin induction.

00:21:49.057 --> 00:21:52.790
I don't like one nurse who has two pitocin Inductions.

00:21:52.790 --> 00:21:54.455
That's too much.

00:21:54.455 --> 00:21:56.662
Eyes off the prize when that happens.

00:21:56.662 --> 00:21:57.512
How are you?

00:21:57.512 --> 00:21:58.999
Are you at your hospital?

00:21:58.999 --> 00:21:59.593
We?

00:21:59.653 --> 00:22:07.557
go up by two and then we usually have two pitocin inductions per nurse, not because we want to, but because it just what.

00:22:07.557 --> 00:22:17.981
One of the hospitals that has been actively keeping track of patient acuity and Counts the acuity higher if you have a pitocin induction in the equation.

00:22:17.981 --> 00:22:18.913
I can't remember how.

00:22:18.913 --> 00:22:27.894
It's been a while since I've been charged nurse at that hospital but we would have to keep track of the acuity versus the number of nurses and whether that was safe and Justify our staffing.

00:22:27.894 --> 00:22:31.522
But also then we would talk about do we need to go on diversion?

00:22:31.522 --> 00:22:37.789
Because we don't have safe staffing ratios and that kind of stuff and so pitocin was considered a one-to-one thing.

00:22:37.789 --> 00:22:43.001
So if nurses had two patients on pitocin then that started kind of messing up our staffing.

00:22:43.001 --> 00:22:53.000
The other hospital I work at I don't know I've not been charged nurse at, but we regularly, just because we don't ever go on diversion, since we're Just really a community hospital and people just come in.

00:22:53.280 --> 00:22:54.726
We labor people in the pack, you.

00:22:54.726 --> 00:22:56.935
We labor people in the Triage area.

00:22:56.935 --> 00:22:58.663
People come in whether we have a bed or not.

00:22:58.663 --> 00:22:59.730
It gets to be pretty crazy.

00:23:00.151 --> 00:23:05.903
But I know that the insert is that six is a natural, spontaneous labor and that ten.

00:23:05.903 --> 00:23:12.255
You shouldn't go past and I, if there's, if we've gotten to ten of pitocin and nothing is happening, we need to do something else.

00:23:12.255 --> 00:23:38.794
We might want to consider if it's safe to break their water and Kick into natural labor and then perhaps back off of the pitocin, because the body would Pick up where the pitocin wasn't able to, because there are natural Labor hormones that are stimulated when your water breaks and when the baby's head is up against the cervix and you know, your body starts to learn what to do with some of these interventions and we don't need to be cranking the pit All the time.

00:23:38.794 --> 00:23:39.957
And I just start my.

00:23:39.957 --> 00:23:42.502
My red flags start to go off between six and ten.

00:23:42.502 --> 00:23:44.154
I'm like what's going on?

00:23:44.154 --> 00:23:45.239
What are we gonna do?

00:23:45.239 --> 00:23:49.474
And then, after ten, I'm like I don't like this, I don't like this anymore.

00:23:50.892 --> 00:23:52.479
You're gonna just die when you read my book.

00:23:52.479 --> 00:23:56.681
No, no, no, ready, no, I'm not getting you.

00:23:56.681 --> 00:24:00.894
And again, this is where this is what I'm talking about For audience.

00:24:00.894 --> 00:24:04.603
You're expecting a baby and you're choosing to have elected the totes an induction.

00:24:04.603 --> 00:24:07.000
This is where you're gonna take my book to your doctor.

00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:08.990
Yeah, your doctor's not gonna like this.

00:24:08.990 --> 00:24:10.096
I know that for sure.

00:24:10.096 --> 00:24:10.480
Kelly.

00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:12.089
Kelly will confirm it once I say it.

00:24:12.732 --> 00:24:21.643
I have like these pro tips in my thing, and one of my pro tips is Talk to your doctor about having a maximum dosage of ten in their order.

00:24:21.643 --> 00:24:23.192
Doctors don't like that.

00:24:23.192 --> 00:24:26.000
They like a maximum dosage of 20.

00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:28.315
Yes, so I am like.

00:24:28.315 --> 00:24:33.410
No, you're gonna tell your doctor that the maximum dosage is 10.

00:24:33.872 --> 00:24:40.220
So that nurse that way, you know, unless you're really super lucky, you had a great nurse like Kelly and there are a bunch of great nurses.

00:24:40.220 --> 00:24:44.664
But if you don't, you have a newer nurse maybe isn't familiar with the totes and inductions.

00:24:44.664 --> 00:24:52.470
A lot of my cases are newer Nurses and they're not familiar with the drug and they're just literally following the doctor's orders like a robot, like they're supposed to.

00:24:52.470 --> 00:24:53.465
They don't understand.

00:24:53.465 --> 00:24:56.980
Yet it takes time for a nurse to be a good labor and delivery nurse.

00:24:56.980 --> 00:25:09.602
But so it's important that in my book I'm like nope, I'm capping out 10 and listen, if you did need more or whatever, that nurse can't give it to you without talking to your doctor.

00:25:09.602 --> 00:25:13.307
Now your doctor has to write another order, but you know what happened then.

00:25:13.407 --> 00:25:17.580
At 10, doctor and nurse have a discussion about your labor and delivery.

00:25:17.580 --> 00:25:18.544
How are you doing?

00:25:18.544 --> 00:25:23.230
It Also forces them to read group and see what's going on with your labor.

00:25:23.230 --> 00:25:25.759
So there's a million reasons why just stuck.

00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:28.650
I call it magic number 10 in my book.

00:25:28.650 --> 00:25:31.226
I'm like I I wouldn't go over 10.

00:25:31.226 --> 00:25:40.724
If you want to, that's fine, but have your doctor stop that order and literally, if your doctor has not had a patient yet, he's read my book and tell them that they're probably gonna go wide-eyed.

00:25:40.724 --> 00:25:41.829
Just be ready for it.

00:25:41.829 --> 00:25:46.930
And again, that's why you just fold my book and you know, tell me, you know me, if they haven't yeah, absolutely.

00:25:47.171 --> 00:25:51.082
I feel like every labor and delivery nurse that listens to this is gonna be cheering.

00:25:51.082 --> 00:25:54.704
We all know that.

00:25:54.704 --> 00:25:56.834
You know there's other things that need to be done.

00:25:56.834 --> 00:25:59.038
For if you're at 10 a pit probably.

00:25:59.038 --> 00:26:02.136
The next steps would be, you know, find other ways to stimulate labor.

00:26:02.136 --> 00:26:04.609
Often the next steps are break your water.

00:26:04.932 --> 00:26:18.871
But if that's not something that the patient wants to do at the time, you know we could talk about position changes and like moving, and there's there's so many things that your labor and delivery nurse Can help you do, or if you have a doula that can help you do to get your labor Moving.

00:26:18.871 --> 00:26:21.438
But then, like you said, what is holding the baby up?

00:26:21.438 --> 00:26:28.113
If we're, if we're at Potosin of 10 and you're not feeling the contractions and we're not adequate and all of that stuff, what's?

00:26:28.113 --> 00:26:28.778
What's going on?

00:26:28.778 --> 00:26:30.289
Is the baby too high in your pelvis?

00:26:30.289 --> 00:26:32.901
Is there an anatomical structure that's in the way?

00:26:32.901 --> 00:26:35.089
Like we need to maybe start considering what's going on?

00:26:35.089 --> 00:26:41.941
So, yeah, it just raises a lot of questions whenever, whenever we start going past 10, at least in my brain.

00:26:42.281 --> 00:26:44.329
No, I love it and I loved your comment.

00:26:44.329 --> 00:26:45.734
I you know so much.

00:26:45.734 --> 00:26:51.054
I just love it because after they say, after 10, your body.

00:26:51.054 --> 00:27:05.012
So you have your natural Axi-toesin that your body produces, and then you have this synthetic drug, you know the toast, and that mimics the axi toast and you put the toast and then your system that activates your body to release Axi toast.

00:27:05.012 --> 00:27:13.890
And so they say there's a big study that came out as the last thing I published in my book that basically if you go over 10 You're on oxytocin, the toast in overdrive again.

00:27:13.890 --> 00:27:15.130
That's not good for baby.

00:27:15.490 --> 00:27:25.162
But listen, you said a couple things that I'd want to comment on because they are important decisions, but chapter 11 again goes over common issues, common facts in a baby case.

00:27:25.162 --> 00:27:28.384
One of the most common issues in my cases are facts.

00:27:28.384 --> 00:27:48.441
It's a maybe different point issue, but a fact is that when there is a mistake, where there's a complication, it is Typically almost always after mom's water breaks, so that it's actually a an incredibly important decision because Until that happens, your baby is chilling out, they're pretty comfy.

00:27:48.441 --> 00:27:52.320
When you drain the water out of their home, they're the uterus.

00:27:52.320 --> 00:27:59.144
Then it changes that environment that the baby's in and then they become more vulnerable to something happening.

00:27:59.144 --> 00:28:07.238
So just keep that in mind, that if your doctor makes that recommendation, you want to ask them why and make sure there's a medical reason for it.

00:28:07.238 --> 00:28:09.884
And again, if your doctor's like, what's the big deal?

00:28:09.884 --> 00:28:12.828
Show them chapter 11 of my book, gina Mundi.

00:28:12.828 --> 00:28:18.445
That's a huge decision that people don't realize unless you're in.

00:28:18.445 --> 00:28:19.750
You know my profession.

00:28:19.750 --> 00:28:25.703
And then another thing that you'd say you said the community hospital and you guys don't turn anybody down.

00:28:25.703 --> 00:28:26.718
You're now.

00:28:26.718 --> 00:28:29.455
You're making me shake and like.

00:28:29.455 --> 00:28:34.298
And Again, this is chapter 11 of my book.

00:28:34.298 --> 00:28:38.029
This is so incredibly important when mistakes and complications occur.

00:28:38.951 --> 00:28:45.170
It is also a very busy labor and delivery unit, so everybody's running hard.

00:28:45.170 --> 00:28:46.309
They're thinned out.

00:28:46.309 --> 00:29:00.291
I mean, if you roll up to labor and delivery and they're jammed and you get stuck in an extra bedroom or an extra room, I mean at that point you just got to be really careful and that's why it is I Just so you know.

00:29:00.291 --> 00:29:02.558
Also, you said a magic word that I love.

00:29:02.558 --> 00:29:03.561
I love doulas.

00:29:03.561 --> 00:29:08.049
As a child birth attorney, I have never had a doula involved in a case.

00:29:08.049 --> 00:29:10.443
I have reviewed millions of records.

00:29:10.443 --> 00:29:14.238
A doula's I have never been, ever even mentioned in a case.

00:29:14.238 --> 00:29:14.699
And listen.

00:29:14.699 --> 00:29:25.574
Just so everyone understands A doula would be effective in a case is if she even spoke to the mom during pregnancy or childbirth, let alone step in a room.

00:29:25.574 --> 00:29:28.269
So doulas are amazing advocates.

00:29:28.269 --> 00:29:33.790
Especially if you roll up and that unit is busy, I mean you have this person.

00:29:33.790 --> 00:29:37.057
If you have a good doula man, there's nothing that needs a good doula.

00:29:37.505 --> 00:29:41.394
And obviously when the childbirth attorney knows nothing.

00:29:41.394 --> 00:29:48.493
Well, I do now, ever since you know publishing a book and whatnot, but I did not know much about doulas before publishing my book.

00:29:48.493 --> 00:29:50.065
And that is huge.

00:29:50.065 --> 00:29:52.805
And the childbirth attorney only sees the band stuff.

00:29:52.805 --> 00:29:54.329
There's another thing about doulas.

00:29:54.329 --> 00:29:58.734
Yeah, doulas are helping to bring babies safely into this world.

00:29:58.734 --> 00:30:13.510
So if you have access to a good doula, to me childbirth attorney no brainer, like my kids, I've already picked out the doulas Good, I'm just saying you cannot be a good doula and they will help you.

00:30:13.510 --> 00:30:15.167
Now my book, chapter seven.

00:30:15.167 --> 00:30:18.915
I do have a baby advocate that could be a doula.

00:30:18.915 --> 00:30:29.297
If you don't have access to a doula, or you can't find a good one, or whatever the reason is, I do recommend designating somebody to be your advocate.

00:30:29.297 --> 00:30:31.592
Have your husband do it, have your mom do it.

00:30:31.592 --> 00:30:38.096
Grandmas, grandmas make the best advocates because I wrote the book so I have healthy grandkids.

00:30:38.096 --> 00:30:42.339
Yeah, so, grandmas, you should read my Amazon reviews and grandmas, they just love my book.

00:30:43.166 --> 00:30:55.434
That makes sense because I kind of don't get my grandma perspective right, yeah, but ever since I've been doing the packgast too, a lot of people are like, well, the husbands don't really know what to do and they're just confused.

00:30:55.434 --> 00:31:01.536
And I'm like, okay, so your husband just curls up in the corner in the fetal position during a childbirth.

00:31:01.536 --> 00:31:04.368
Sometimes that is not hot.

00:31:04.368 --> 00:31:16.387
Okay, no, listen, instinctively a husband should want to protect his wife and his baby, and I can tell you I mean, I get it Up until this point.

00:31:16.387 --> 00:31:19.174
I don't think there was a book that told them how to do it.

00:31:19.174 --> 00:31:20.568
My book does.

00:31:20.568 --> 00:31:27.897
My book will help guide them so they can be there for you and they can help you make those good decisions.

00:31:27.897 --> 00:31:35.391
And you know what you are going to look in so much more if he's there protecting you and not sitting in the corner rocking back and forth.

00:31:35.391 --> 00:31:38.630
Yeah, you know the tangent I keep.

00:31:38.630 --> 00:31:44.730
That's what moms keep telling me or passing out Knock that off, man.

00:31:44.730 --> 00:31:46.675
You guys play this for your husband.

00:31:46.675 --> 00:31:50.654
Gina Mundy said that is not hot, it's not.

00:31:53.560 --> 00:31:54.104
Oh, my goodness.

00:31:54.104 --> 00:31:57.192
Yes, the ones that are at the bedside, like going through it.

00:31:57.192 --> 00:31:58.155
That's amazing.

00:31:58.155 --> 00:32:04.215
All too many of them are just like chilling, playing Candy Crush or just passed out in fetal position.

00:32:04.416 --> 00:32:28.336
Yeah, and I think that's a fact to the families in these cases, when after the birth of their baby, and then they have to meet me, it's a hard day, and when I talk to them it's even harder because they know every single thing about childbirth and what happened to their baby, to the point where they know and I know If they would have known this before their baby was born, they wouldn't be sitting there talking to me.

00:32:28.336 --> 00:32:30.150
It's absolutely heart-wrenching.

00:32:30.351 --> 00:32:33.834
Right Before I became a parent, I didn't know how much free time I had.

00:32:33.834 --> 00:32:35.861
You know that's great.

00:32:35.861 --> 00:32:36.584
That's great.

00:32:36.584 --> 00:32:42.517
Gina and Kelly want to remind you that now is the most time you're ever going to have in your life.

00:32:42.517 --> 00:32:47.296
So please prepare for your future because your baby is your new career.

00:32:47.296 --> 00:33:06.977
Most people don't know that going into it, but you are starting a new career and it's going to take more time than your current career and you're going to not know how you're doing it and I guarantee you you don't want to deal with birth trauma or anything even worse than that physical trauma or fatalities because you tried to bring a baby into the world.

00:33:06.977 --> 00:33:14.728
You want to be able to get to that next chapter of your life because you have prepared fully and you understand the process.

00:33:14.728 --> 00:33:17.332
And then you've also prepared for parenting as well.

00:33:17.332 --> 00:33:20.934
But for the scope of this podcast, we're talking about preparing for your birth.

00:33:20.934 --> 00:33:30.569
I'm also advocating preparing for parenting as much as possible and picking out your pediatrician, just like you're going to pick out your OB, and making sure that they know their stuff and that they're going to be your advocate.

00:33:30.569 --> 00:33:32.650
All of that is so important.

00:33:32.650 --> 00:33:42.034
But you wouldn't prepare for a career with just going to a three-hour class and seeing your boss 15 minutes every week.

00:33:42.034 --> 00:33:45.192
That's not how you prepare for a new career.

00:33:45.192 --> 00:33:54.799
So why would you prepare for your new career in parenting or in birthing a child and then parenting, by going to a three-hour birthing class and seeing your OB 15 minutes a week?

00:33:54.799 --> 00:33:56.549
That none of that makes sense.

00:33:56.549 --> 00:34:14.885
If we're talking about a hospital birth, you wouldn't, for instance, go into get treatment for cancer without knowing your options and fully deciding and having empowered decisions and figuring out how the next steps of your life are going to go with this new life-altering diagnosis.

00:34:14.885 --> 00:34:17.193
Well, birth is life-altering.

00:34:17.193 --> 00:34:19.391
You're going to have a new human to care for.

00:34:19.391 --> 00:34:20.489
You've never done that before.

00:34:20.489 --> 00:34:31.971
So why are we not putting the same amount of thought and consideration into that as we would if we were going in for a life-altering medical diagnosis and not to medicalize birth?

00:34:31.971 --> 00:35:16.929
But if someone is preparing for a home birth or for a birth center birth and they're going to see a midwife, the level of preparation that will be expected of them is so much more than what you would do to prepare for a hospital birth, and it's like you give away your power to the hospital to go ahead and just do the birthing thing and you'd go in not knowing what you're signing up for, whereas if you're going to prepare for a natural birth, that is a marathon that you need to physically and mentally prepare for and people that have made that choice physically and mentally prepare for it and they spend hours and hours, and hours and hours and months doing that and they have to demonstrate that accountability to their birth team so that they can all work together and stay safe.

00:35:16.929 --> 00:35:19.532
Why are we not doing that for hospital birth?

00:35:19.532 --> 00:35:34.206
It's a different mindset that you're turning over all the authority to the hospital or the provider or the team and then suddenly what I see are people wanting to take back that authority because they don't feel empowered.

00:35:34.206 --> 00:35:36.775
But they don't know how because they haven't empowered themselves.

00:35:36.775 --> 00:35:51.769
So it's so frustrating to see people who have obviously not prepared have a horrible experience when it totally could have been prevented, whether or not there's a negative outcome, because you can have a completely normal birth and I'm an example of that.

00:35:51.864 --> 00:35:55.916
My first birth and my second birth are very similar, but my first birth cost me trauma.

00:35:55.916 --> 00:36:00.755
My second birth did not and I had more interventions in my second birth, but they were empowered.

00:36:00.755 --> 00:36:11.097
I made those choices versus the choices were made for me in my first birth, and I look back at my chart and I agree with the choices that were made.

00:36:11.097 --> 00:36:42.378
It wasn't what I wanted, but I wasn't fully knowledgeable, and when I realized what happened with my natural labor process and all of those other things in the cascade that led to the interventions, I understand how that occurred in my second birth, and when it started to happen again, I knew what needed to happen in order to keep me and my baby safe, and so it felt empowered and my brain could keep up with what my body was doing, versus my brain couldn't keep up, because people were doing things to my body that I didn't understand, and that's what causes trauma Wow.

00:36:43.887 --> 00:36:47.505
You look at dream come true Now, thank you.

00:36:47.505 --> 00:36:53.237
You're freaking brilliant and doing all of these amazing things for your listeners.

00:36:53.237 --> 00:37:02.231
Okay, everybody realized Kelly's like busy mom, busy working with her delivery here and has this amazing podcast.

00:37:02.231 --> 00:37:05.500
So people like you can have healthy babies.

00:37:05.619 --> 00:37:06.605
So my good new home.

00:37:06.605 --> 00:37:10.496
Thank you for coming out with this book, because I didn't get a chance to read it.

00:37:10.496 --> 00:37:11.610
But you know what I was waiting for?

00:37:11.610 --> 00:37:13.983
The audio book, because I'm a audio book listener.

00:37:13.983 --> 00:37:15.771
But I'm going to buy it and bring it to the unit.

00:37:16.827 --> 00:37:17.451
Oh thank you.

00:37:17.965 --> 00:37:19.469
You know, I had six of kids.

00:37:21.905 --> 00:37:23.311
You can point to her, to the doctors.

00:37:23.744 --> 00:37:24.909
How do you sell books to nurses?

00:37:24.909 --> 00:37:26.588
You tell them that six of pit is optimal.

00:37:26.829 --> 00:37:27.711
Six is perfect.

00:37:27.711 --> 00:37:29.536
That's all you need done Adopt.

00:37:29.536 --> 00:37:31.731
So I have a labor and delivery nurse and it was funny.

00:37:31.731 --> 00:37:33.150
She I have no idea who she is.

00:37:33.150 --> 00:37:35.612
She's actually absolutely amazing.

00:37:35.612 --> 00:37:45.469
I was just going through Instagram and she tagged me I think that's why it was in my news feed and she's doing a review of my book and I wrote down.

00:37:45.469 --> 00:37:46.492
So it was a good review.

00:37:46.704 --> 00:37:52.831
She says not only should patients read it, but everybody on the delivery team doctors, nurse everybody should read this book.

00:37:52.831 --> 00:37:55.469
So then I wrote like hey, thank you.

00:37:55.469 --> 00:37:57.835
Yeah, then you know, then it's so sweet, I really appreciate it.

00:37:57.835 --> 00:38:05.251
And so she actually messaged me personally and she was like listen, I make traveling labor and delivery nurse.

00:38:05.251 --> 00:38:13.853
She goes, I take your book to every single hospital and she goes and I leave it at the nurses station so we can all go through it all the time.

00:38:13.853 --> 00:38:17.552
And I'm like stop, and yeah, she takes it to.

00:38:17.552 --> 00:38:18.414
She doesn't leave her.

00:38:18.414 --> 00:38:20.371
Like, if she goes to work, she takes my book with her.

00:38:20.371 --> 00:38:24.815
So, yeah, I mean take the book, show it to your hospital, show it to your doctors.

00:38:24.815 --> 00:38:33.474
You know, this is why I'm not increasing the fatigues in right here, and this is why I don't want to go about 10 right here.

00:38:33.474 --> 00:38:38.074
Again, email me if they have an issue and, by the way, the audio book should be on hearts 15.

00:38:38.204 --> 00:38:46.076
So if you, do that, yeah, but even it sounds like I need to like be highlighting some things, so it's like what kind of book is it?

00:38:46.076 --> 00:38:46.958
Is it a workbook?

00:38:46.958 --> 00:38:48.121
It sounds more like a workbook.

00:38:48.121 --> 00:38:49.085
And here you go.

00:38:51.751 --> 00:38:53.056
Yes, it's going to be at the nurses station.

00:38:53.056 --> 00:38:53.967
I'll be buying two copies.

00:38:54.784 --> 00:38:55.789
And I love travel nurses.

00:38:55.789 --> 00:38:58.914
They know their stuff because they have to protect themselves.

00:38:58.914 --> 00:39:15.994
Their entire career requires them to consistently protect their license because every hospital is just so different and so you know, if you walk in and you're brand new and you only get like a couple days of training and then you're expected to be like a top notch nurse, you have to protect your license.

00:39:16.195 --> 00:39:17.856
Yeah, so she's doing it.

00:39:17.856 --> 00:39:19.969
And you know what I bet I even asked her.

00:39:19.969 --> 00:39:24.673
I should ask her, like, have you had to like pull it out and show a doctor, show a hospital, and why you're not doing something in my book?

00:39:24.833 --> 00:39:25.054
Yeah.

00:39:25.054 --> 00:39:31.255
I heard the thing about the six of pit being the optimal level that mimics the body's spontaneous labor.

00:39:31.255 --> 00:39:35.396
Yes, but I didn't know that it came directly from the drug insert.

00:39:35.396 --> 00:39:36.407
So I need to get.

00:39:36.407 --> 00:39:40.869
Because we don't get the drug insert, we don't have just Google and print it out.

00:39:40.869 --> 00:39:43.014
Okay, well, I'm going to Easy.

00:39:43.916 --> 00:39:47.170
Yeah no, you can just literally Google the pitosa and felicitin moms.

00:39:47.170 --> 00:39:48.092
That's a great point.

00:39:48.092 --> 00:39:48.735
There you go.

00:39:48.735 --> 00:39:52.981
If you were going to I actually you know what, don't read it.

00:39:52.981 --> 00:39:56.472
I, I, everything you know from the drive, you know like a sun I read it.

00:39:56.472 --> 00:39:57.615
It's kind of eye-opening.

00:39:57.925 --> 00:39:59.188
You may not get an electric induction.

00:39:59.228 --> 00:39:59.831
If you read it.

00:39:59.992 --> 00:40:00.313
Right.

00:40:00.885 --> 00:40:01.969
If you want to, you can Google it.

00:40:01.969 --> 00:40:04.211
I went to the drug insert.

00:40:04.211 --> 00:40:09.353
I pulled out everything I thought was important and then wrote it more in my plain language.

00:40:09.353 --> 00:40:10.275
So everything.

00:40:10.414 --> 00:40:11.476
Yeah, that's probably better.

00:40:11.476 --> 00:40:21.932
Yeah, well, I'm going to be printing it off, but because this is an argument you know, I mean this is what goes around and around with the nurses, because we're like, why are we pushing this?

00:40:21.932 --> 00:40:23.175
Like, why are we going faster?

00:40:23.175 --> 00:40:25.306
Why, because I work at.

00:40:25.306 --> 00:40:29.768
It says like 20 to 30 minutes is how often we go up on the pitocin, so they're a little bit of the way.

00:40:29.768 --> 00:40:31.668
The other one is 15.

00:40:31.668 --> 00:40:32.971
Stop it.

00:40:33.813 --> 00:40:36.226
No, you know what I?

00:40:36.226 --> 00:40:38.472
I may start just heading straight to these hospitals.

00:40:38.472 --> 00:40:42.193
That's great Audience, pure insanity.

00:40:42.193 --> 00:40:46.865
That's pure insanity there and I have it in there Again.

00:40:46.865 --> 00:40:52.309
This is where this, I bet you this is why that but first takes my book everywhere so your body it can take.

00:40:52.309 --> 00:40:55.597
Oh, I hate to quote it because I it's not 15 minutes.

00:40:55.597 --> 00:41:03.032
Your body has to take time to react to that pitocin and kind of hit that steady state of the pitocin is, I think what they call it.

00:41:03.032 --> 00:41:06.951
It's way more than 15 minutes, it's like an hour or something, I don't know.

00:41:06.951 --> 00:41:07.934
I quilt the study.

00:41:07.934 --> 00:41:13.016
I cite the study because I did like, and there's a few studies that have been kind of all of it aborts.

00:41:13.016 --> 00:41:29.217
I actually I think I cited a couple of the studies but no, the 15 minutes is not enough time and that's going to take your body into oxytocin, pitocin overdrive and that is just really, really bad for baby, as I've seen in my cases for 21 years.

00:41:30.007 --> 00:41:35.954
Well, and to kind of get off on a little bit of a tangent, there's some other reasons that it's not great to be pumping somebody full of pitocin.

00:41:35.954 --> 00:41:40.715
One is we know that it increases their risk for hemorrhage afterwards because it tires out the uterus.

00:41:40.715 --> 00:41:45.876
I've heard a lot of comments about it overloading the pitocin sensors, but I'm not.

00:41:45.876 --> 00:41:52.318
I haven't been able to find evidence of that, and what we want is uterine tetany after delivery.

00:41:52.318 --> 00:42:04.802
But what happens is if you are giving too much pitocin, it causes uterine atony, because you can't throw more pitocin at a tired out uterus that's already got its pitocin sensors full and so then it causes problems.

00:42:04.802 --> 00:42:10.673
Then we have to do more interventions, like the medications like methadone, hemivate, mesoprostil.

00:42:10.673 --> 00:42:23.931
We use tranhexamic acid now just to continue to clot what's already clotted, and then we have the potential of needing a blood transfusion or going back to the OR for a DNC or a hysterectomy or, if you're lucky, you're at a hospital.

00:42:23.931 --> 00:42:26.235
They do uterine artery embolism.

00:42:26.235 --> 00:42:32.088
Now we have things like the JEDA that help stop the hemorrhages and that's stopping things a lot faster.

00:42:32.088 --> 00:42:36.375
But they're expensive, they're invasive and let's just not get there.

00:42:36.375 --> 00:42:43.693
Yeah, why, when we could just be doing optimal levels of pitocin and then asking what next in that situation.

00:42:44.159 --> 00:42:58.920
And then the other thing is that I've heard, when I've interviewed midwives for my podcast before, they've talked about the endogenous pitocin and what it does to the brain and the connection with the baby versus synthetic or exogenous pitocin.

00:42:59.019 --> 00:43:11.436
So endogenous is internal pitocin, like your natural body secreting the hormone in a response to the natural occurring labor processes and also afterwards having that contact with your baby.

00:43:11.436 --> 00:43:21.155
There's thought in, I believe, studies that have started to realize that having that external pitocin or the synthetic pitocin can kind of mess that up.

00:43:21.155 --> 00:43:32.496
And so then we end up having issues with breastfeeding and bonding and all of that stuff, because it doesn't necessarily affect the brain in the same way that the internal or endogenous pitocin does.

00:43:32.496 --> 00:43:34.905
So it's a drug Just like every other drug.

00:43:34.905 --> 00:43:38.992
There's benefits in their strawbacks, and so why are we overdosing?

00:43:38.992 --> 00:43:43.431
You wouldn't give somebody a maximum dose of Tylenol for a little bitty headache.

00:43:43.431 --> 00:43:50.659
So then why would we do the same thing for an induction if we just waited to see how the patient responded?

00:43:50.659 --> 00:43:55.472
So I just don't really know why we're cranking things as much as we are forcing things.

00:43:55.981 --> 00:44:00.588
Yeah, after I published the book and then I've been on the podcast talking to a lot of people about my book.

00:44:00.588 --> 00:44:05.295
I keep hearing about these postpartum issues and the breastfeeding pitocin.

00:44:05.295 --> 00:44:09.148
I don't know anything about that but I'll just let your audience know.

00:44:09.148 --> 00:44:13.224
I mean, this is I keep hearing this a lot Like people keep asking me about it.

00:44:13.224 --> 00:44:19.947
I'm going to look more into it, but it's done just making a form decision and I think something that's important we haven't talked about.

00:44:19.967 --> 00:44:32.159
We keep talking about interventions and something that is so incredibly important is spontaneous vaginal birth is rarely in my cases.

00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:47.753
So if you can do that, I may spontaneous vaginal birth kind of check because of what I've seen Rarely, rarely do I have a case Again for the past 21 years.

00:44:47.753 --> 00:44:54.088
I need to keep saying that, but I've been around a long time doing this that involves a spontaneous vaginal birth.

00:44:54.088 --> 00:44:55.331
So that is.

00:44:55.331 --> 00:44:57.135
That's a great option.

00:44:57.135 --> 00:45:01.728
As a childbirth attorney, definitely I would be telling my kids that is number one.

00:45:01.728 --> 00:45:03.773
That is what I prefer for my grandkids.

00:45:03.773 --> 00:45:05.764
Obviously, you have to have the post-in.

00:45:05.764 --> 00:45:06.865
You go to chapter 14.

00:45:06.865 --> 00:45:09.289
But those interventions, man, that's.

00:45:09.289 --> 00:45:11.014
That's what stuff goes wrong.

00:45:11.480 --> 00:45:12.503
Yeah, it's not.

00:45:12.503 --> 00:45:14.289
Yeah, it's not by leaving the body alone.

00:45:14.289 --> 00:45:22.592
Usually, I mean, unless you have a medical reason, like if you're preclamatic and your blood pressures sky high well, we don't have a choice.

00:45:22.592 --> 00:45:35.568
So there's a lot going on there, but I think, for the most part, what we're talking about is elective inductions that go wrong, and then the other ones that are medically necessary because we're trying to save the mom and the baby's life.

00:45:35.568 --> 00:45:41.775
You know, it is more, a little bit more important to move things along, especially if we're talking about high blood pressure.

00:45:41.900 --> 00:45:52.679
Well, and that's why it is so important, if you're pregnant, that you do learn about the TOSEN, maybe listening to this podcast and being like heck, no TOSEN is not coming anywhere near my baby.

00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:56.047
Listen, that might not be the case.

00:45:56.047 --> 00:45:59.014
That's very hard to plan out childbirth, pregnancy or anything.

00:45:59.014 --> 00:46:01.760
You have to be ready to pivot if you need to.

00:46:01.760 --> 00:46:04.704
I tell a story is the introduction to the book.

00:46:04.704 --> 00:46:07.509
But my niece, she was 38 weeks pregnant.

00:46:07.509 --> 00:46:11.802
Her mom calls me, which is my sister named Kelly by the way, aww, I know that.

00:46:12.063 --> 00:46:13.469
And so he said Kelly and Gina.

00:46:13.469 --> 00:46:15.878
And I'm like that's why I grew up with only 15 months of care.

00:46:15.878 --> 00:46:18.583
Aww, and now yeah, so we're really tight.

00:46:18.583 --> 00:46:25.195
So Sam's like my other daughter, she's having the first baby of our next generation at you know two.

00:46:25.195 --> 00:46:28.349
She's actually the reason I stopped in my tracks and moved to Florida.

00:46:28.690 --> 00:46:28.971
Mm-hmm.

00:46:29.300 --> 00:46:29.501
And.

00:46:29.501 --> 00:46:43.226
But she was 38 weeks pregnant and she was really sick and I am like they were like should she go to an IV clinic and get an IV, or should she go to the hospital and get an IV or get checked out?

00:46:43.226 --> 00:46:49.842
I'm like to the hospital, I get it, she's not feeling well, but I want baby checked out because if she's she was doing, she's in pretty bad shape.

00:46:49.842 --> 00:46:56.114
I'm like I need baby on a fetal monitor immediately if she is that bad, because your baby's inside you.

00:46:56.114 --> 00:46:57.983
It's hard to tell how baby's doing.

00:46:57.983 --> 00:46:59.226
You know mom.

00:46:59.226 --> 00:47:06.786
You look at mom and you're like, oh, you're in pain, you can talk, mom communicates, you guys make a plan, it's all good, baby's much different.

00:47:06.786 --> 00:47:08.650
So I'm like, go up, check on baby.

00:47:08.650 --> 00:47:09.713
And they did.

00:47:09.713 --> 00:47:10.621
She did.

00:47:10.641 --> 00:47:17.905
She's 38 weeks pregnant and baby was not doing well and she was given the oxygen, c-section or pitocin induction.

00:47:17.905 --> 00:47:24.061
And then obviously, at that point my phone just started going crazy because of those two accidents.

00:47:24.061 --> 00:47:31.751
But no, she just wanted a spontaneous vaginal birth and she was just, she was not ready for anything.

00:47:31.751 --> 00:47:33.114
She's like what's pitocin?

00:47:33.114 --> 00:47:34.356
I'm like what's pitocin?

00:47:34.356 --> 00:47:42.369
And I'm like, oh my gosh, you know and I just my case is this, yeah, and it was a scary birth.

00:47:42.369 --> 00:47:47.036
Yeah, we actually, at the end of that, went about 20 minutes not knowing how the baby was going to be.

00:47:47.036 --> 00:47:49.222
Okay, it played out just like my case is.

00:47:49.402 --> 00:47:59.155
It was awful and it stopped me in my tracks and basically initially, when my sister had called, we thought she was it was March 17, 2022.

00:47:59.155 --> 00:48:06.269
I couldn't drink because then it was the same padding stay right, couldn't have my back to home or green beer because I was waiting for her.

00:48:06.269 --> 00:48:11.501
So I'm like, yay, five o'clock, my phone ran, perfect timing, right and I have my cocktail.

00:48:11.501 --> 00:48:21.871
And instead it was my sister hysterically screaming on the phone and I am like I ran outside, away from my family, so they couldn't hear her.

00:48:22.030 --> 00:48:34.025
I knew and I went from like this legal analysis of what had happened during labor to like the human analysis, because when I talk to the family, they always describe this transitional period.

00:48:34.025 --> 00:48:52.894
They have their before life, before their baby was born, and they have their after baby was born, like their two separate lives and it's that point in time where their life changes forever and I'm like this is how the families feel is this our transitional point or is our lives going to be changed forever?

00:48:52.894 --> 00:49:00.128
And obviously we got news that baby was going to be okay, but it was that minute that stopped me in my track.

00:49:00.128 --> 00:49:08.018
It took me out of my legal head and it went into this human experience, human emotion, and I'm like I got to start writing this stuff down.

00:49:08.018 --> 00:49:08.920
I don't know too much.

00:49:09.099 --> 00:49:10.422
Yeah, yeah, and it's just.

00:49:10.422 --> 00:49:16.168
I think the most important part that you mentioned was, yes, the normal, spontaneous vaginal delivery is the best.

00:49:16.168 --> 00:49:17.369
That is the best option.

00:49:17.369 --> 00:49:17.990
That's what I want for.

00:49:17.990 --> 00:49:19.132
I wish that on everybody.

00:49:19.132 --> 00:49:22.956
However, there's a moment sometimes when that gets taken off the table.

00:49:22.956 --> 00:49:42.353
And if you've continued to plan for a normal, spontaneous vaginal delivery but not considered what your backup plan is if that gets taken off the table and not gotten really comfortable with those options and understanding what your comfort level is with some of those options like we're talking about, like the six of pit, and then we'll have a conversation, or the 10 of pit, and then we'll have a conversation.

00:49:42.353 --> 00:49:49.597
Or let's talk about whether it's medically necessary to break my water or whether we're doing this to get the labor moving.

00:49:49.597 --> 00:49:58.367
Let's talk about the position of the baby's head in my pelvis before we break my water, because that makes a difference, because the higher up the baby is, the more likely to have a cord prolapse.

00:49:58.367 --> 00:50:08.561
Or let's talk about how far I am in labor and whether or not we think that I might end up having my water broken for too long and introduce infection risks and that kind of thing.

00:50:08.561 --> 00:50:11.003
I mean it's nothing is 100% benign.

00:50:11.003 --> 00:50:20.891
So it's important to know how these tools can help you and how these tools can hurt you, because they're all just tools that your doctor is using to progress your labor.

00:50:20.891 --> 00:50:29.143
But you get a choice on how you want to utilize the tools as well, and you and your doctor should be having a conversation.

00:50:29.143 --> 00:50:30.739
It should be informed.

00:50:30.778 --> 00:50:32.344
Consent is really important.

00:50:32.344 --> 00:50:37.021
Shared decision-making so that everybody is on the same page and feels comfortable.

00:50:37.021 --> 00:50:43.043
And while the doctor is the head of the delivery team, you also are the head of the delivery team.

00:50:43.043 --> 00:50:45.360
You are the patient, the consumer.

00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:46.242
It's your body.

00:50:46.242 --> 00:50:47.226
You have autonomy.

00:50:47.226 --> 00:50:48.460
You get to say yes or no.

00:50:48.460 --> 00:50:52.505
But in saying yes or no, please don't do it arbitrarily.

00:50:52.505 --> 00:50:54.442
Please don't make it fear-based.

00:50:54.442 --> 00:51:07.461
Please make it educated, so that you know exactly what your limits are, what your desires are, what your goals are, and you've really sat with a lot of these possibilities and decided how you're going to handle them.

00:51:07.461 --> 00:51:18.175
Because that's how you enter the birth space empowered, not by kiting from them and trusting your doctor so completely that you think that they're going to make the right decision for you.

00:51:18.175 --> 00:51:26.485
Yes, you should trust your doctor, but because they've proven that they're trustworthy and because you've had conversations and you understand how they plan to react in your birth.

00:51:26.485 --> 00:51:32.864
I just think it's so important and I think that so many people unfortunately don't take the time to do that.

00:51:33.034 --> 00:51:35.929
Yeah, I don't even know how to respond to that.

00:51:35.929 --> 00:51:37.221
I don't even know if I can.

00:51:37.221 --> 00:51:39.081
That is so well said.

00:51:39.081 --> 00:51:41.768
So you know I wrote also.

00:51:41.768 --> 00:51:45.302
You haven't talked about this, but I did do a chapter on having a plan.

00:51:45.302 --> 00:51:51.643
My spin on it as the attorney is obviously different because, you know, this is not your normal pregnancy book.

00:51:51.643 --> 00:51:54.364
Having a plan is one of the big lessons in the cases.

00:51:54.534 --> 00:52:07.882
So you can understand decisions you may have to make, you can marinate in those decisions, and it's important that you do that in the comfort of your own home where you can listen to great podcasts like this.

00:52:07.882 --> 00:52:13.443
I mean, I can't even I haven't listened to all your episodes but you must be just full of information.

00:52:13.443 --> 00:52:19.965
These are decisions you may have to make, and so knowing the good, knowing the bad, is so incredibly important.

00:52:19.965 --> 00:52:22.983
But to read my book, you listen to podcasts like this.

00:52:22.983 --> 00:52:36.039
Maybe you have a doula or doula I love them, they're just great educators and you have somebody, a coach or whatnot, and you just go through and you understand and you take the time.

00:52:36.201 --> 00:52:41.358
You know when we say create a plan, how long does your wedding take to Exactly Plan?

00:52:41.358 --> 00:52:45.159
Right, or take some time, yeah, plan it, get it all out.

00:52:45.159 --> 00:52:52.842
And that way you're not going to be a deer in the headlights if you have to make a really big decision.

00:52:52.842 --> 00:52:56.684
Because that element of surprise, it's like you cannot focus.

00:52:56.684 --> 00:52:58.539
Well, you can't focus.

00:52:58.539 --> 00:53:01.141
You're going to be careful, you're not going to make great decisions.

00:53:01.141 --> 00:53:02.237
And fear.

00:53:02.237 --> 00:53:04.242
Fear is the unknown.

00:53:04.242 --> 00:53:06.541
How do you overcome fear?

00:53:06.541 --> 00:53:15.143
Understand something, you learn about it, you take the power of knowledge, and that will get rid of your fear.

00:53:15.143 --> 00:53:18.625
People will be like oh, isn't your book going to instill fear into people?

00:53:18.625 --> 00:53:20.802
I say listen, fear is the unknown.

00:53:20.802 --> 00:53:26.101
I am trying to provide them with information so there is no fear.

00:53:26.101 --> 00:53:29.280
They can make those good decisions to have a healthy baby.

00:53:29.894 --> 00:53:39.802
And, by the way, I did have six pregnant beta readers read my book before it was published and my number one question to them was is this book scary?

00:53:40.315 --> 00:53:48.922
All six pregnant beta readers who finally all had their babies, by the way all had nice, healthy babies and they were like Gina, this is not scary at all.

00:53:48.922 --> 00:53:54.641
Even in the book I talk about, I took to pregnant people all the time because of what I do.

00:53:54.641 --> 00:53:57.041
I get phone calls from labor and delivery.

00:53:57.041 --> 00:54:05.902
So I can tell you really, in my career, how I talk to somebody who was expecting is completely different than how I talk to them now.

00:54:05.902 --> 00:54:14.342
I was very just matter of fact Well, you can't really be exactly matter of fact when you have somebody carrying a baby.

00:54:14.342 --> 00:54:27.521
So I learned very quickly on how to speak to them without getting too scary or whatever, because what I'm trying to tell people is so incredibly important it could literally save their babies.

00:54:27.521 --> 00:54:38.400
So I obviously talk in a way that's more preventative, proactive, and that's also because my book is not about what can go wrong, it's how to make sure it goes right.

00:54:39.394 --> 00:54:45.900
I've started to encourage people to have birth preferences rather than a birth plan, because I feel like it's a misnomer.

00:54:46.614 --> 00:54:47.860
Because nobody can plan.

00:54:47.860 --> 00:54:52.403
You can consider your options, but you can't plan for how everything is going to go.

00:54:52.403 --> 00:54:55.985
But if this happens, then I'd like to go with this option.

00:54:55.985 --> 00:54:58.559
If this option is not available, I'd like to go with this option.

00:54:58.559 --> 00:55:02.402
You have to be able to make those decisions and you have to know what they are before you make them.

00:55:02.594 --> 00:55:08.481
The other thing that I think is really important is to ask yourself get really honest with how you want to feel in your birth.

00:55:08.481 --> 00:55:15.402
Because if you say that you want to feel calm and empowered and joyful, how does that happen?

00:55:15.402 --> 00:55:29.264
If you feel fear, if you feel unconfident in your decision making, if you feel like you don't know how it's going to go, if you don't feel comfortable in that space, you're not going to feel calm, confident, empowered and joyful.

00:55:29.264 --> 00:55:30.519
You're just going to be scared.

00:55:30.519 --> 00:55:37.985
So why would you go into the birth space not prepared and setting yourself up to feel those negative feelings?

00:55:37.985 --> 00:55:56.036
And then, if you were in a position that is that vulnerable as you are when you are exposing your private parts to deliver a baby, that is, up until the time they come out of your body, essentially part of you, and then that part of you has to live on the outside of your body.

00:55:56.036 --> 00:55:58.980
I can't think of anything else more vulnerable than that.

00:55:58.980 --> 00:56:19.844
So then, if you haven't really focused on how you want to feel in that space and what steps you need to take to feel empowered and not so vulnerable and to be able to continue to use the frontal lobe of your brain because what happens is that part checks out when you're in labor and all of those things are happening and you get so primal you can't actually focus and think.

00:56:19.844 --> 00:56:21.681
You need to have thought that through before.

00:56:21.681 --> 00:56:24.684
It needs to be an instinct when you make those decisions.

00:56:25.615 --> 00:56:31.965
And the other thing that I think is so important that I actually did an episode on is stress and labor do not mix.

00:56:31.965 --> 00:56:36.422
So if you want to have that normal, spontaneous vaginal delivery, you have to feel safe period.

00:56:36.422 --> 00:56:39.342
There is no way that your body can do it.

00:56:39.342 --> 00:56:46.541
It needs to do if you feel terror, if you feel like I mean, your body is not made to run away from a tiger while you're giving birth.

00:56:46.541 --> 00:56:47.579
It doesn't work.

00:56:47.835 --> 00:56:54.538
You see animals go find a safe space to deliver and then they'll stop what they're doing if they no longer feel safe and they'll move to another safe space.

00:56:54.538 --> 00:56:57.559
But humans are mammals and it works the same way.

00:56:57.559 --> 00:57:13.981
If you have a doctor that's scaring you and increasing your cortisol levels and making you feel stressed out, your body's not gonna feel safe enough to put itself in that vulnerable position where you are going to deliver probably the most important human in your life.

00:57:13.981 --> 00:57:20.342
You're not gonna bring that child on the outside of your body where you no longer feel like you're protecting it.

00:57:20.342 --> 00:57:22.061
Your body's not gonna do that.

00:57:22.061 --> 00:57:33.242
So you have to plan to feel safe in that space and if you haven't gone through all the options and something comes up that scares you, your body's not gonna be able to do what needs to do.

00:57:33.695 --> 00:57:35.541
Those are such great points.

00:57:35.541 --> 00:57:52.422
That's so true and actually just so, baby lawyers typically have C-sections for that reason because we can't unsee what we've seen, we can't unknow what we know, so we typically have to have C-sections.

00:57:52.422 --> 00:57:59.340
So in 2004, when I had my first baby, my friends that were also giving birth, that were baby lawyers.

00:57:59.340 --> 00:58:04.644
So back then, just so you understand, elected C-sections were still looked down upon.

00:58:04.644 --> 00:58:12.119
So my friend was like I talked to my doctor, I'm like I'm just not gonna be able to relax, I just want a C-section.

00:58:12.119 --> 00:58:16.581
And they're like no, that's not a reason to have a C-section.

00:58:16.581 --> 00:58:17.737
And I really did.

00:58:17.737 --> 00:58:22.478
Like my doctor, he was very conservative and he's like Gina, you can do it.

00:58:22.478 --> 00:58:25.639
So I'm playing this mental game in my head and whatnot.

00:58:25.639 --> 00:58:29.074
And then my girlfriend's like just tell your doctor, you have herpes.

00:58:29.074 --> 00:58:33.273
She's like back in 2004, you had herpes, they just sectioned you.

00:58:33.273 --> 00:58:38.253
So I'm like I don't have herpes in my medical records, I don't have herpes.

00:58:38.253 --> 00:58:41.994
She's like well, I told my doctor I had herpes and I'm getting a C-section.

00:58:41.994 --> 00:58:42.550
And she did.

00:58:42.550 --> 00:58:45.711
She got her lactate C-section at 39 weeks, whatever.

00:58:45.711 --> 00:58:46.836
Then there's me.

00:58:46.836 --> 00:58:48.516
So my doctor won't schedule it.

00:58:48.516 --> 00:58:50.717
And he's like Gina, let's just see, let's just see.

00:58:51.409 --> 00:58:55.681
So I wake up April 4th 2004.

00:58:55.681 --> 00:59:07.139
So 4404 in hard for labor with my first baby and I was always an exhausted person because I was wearing a heart always run hard and so I don't know why, I didn't feel any actual contractions.

00:59:07.139 --> 00:59:14.157
But I woke up and straight up wanted to push the baby out, breathing through contractions and we had went to the hospital.

00:59:14.157 --> 00:59:16.536
If that was convinced, I was literally gonna have the baby in the car.

00:59:16.536 --> 00:59:25.733
And I get there and yeah, just everything just started freaking me out because again, just of what I know, it's very different.

00:59:25.773 --> 00:59:27.110
But babies are great, dr.

00:59:27.110 --> 00:59:30.974
Couple of times the doctor is like oh, what is section you?

00:59:30.974 --> 00:59:36.596
I don't think you can have the baby Gina vaginally because you can't relax and I'm like I'm sorry, do you know what I do?

00:59:36.596 --> 00:59:39.757
I know it's a problem, I get it.

00:59:39.757 --> 00:59:44.532
Even after that it's obviously and actually I have a male birth trauma.

00:59:44.532 --> 00:59:47.378
It's a journey and he had his wife do an elective cease.

00:59:47.378 --> 00:59:48.454
Now they're more acceptable.

00:59:48.454 --> 00:59:54.838
Obviously His wife had an elective C-section Like he couldn't handle it even as the husband or dad.

00:59:55.989 --> 01:00:02.342
He's like no, no, yeah, you have to be comfortable in order to do that.

01:00:02.342 --> 01:00:11.173
You cannot be stressed out and cannot be in fight or flight mode with her Mm-hmm, and just to clarify, we're not recommending elective C-sections.

01:00:11.630 --> 01:00:13.369
However, if that is your choice, no, we're not.

01:00:13.369 --> 01:00:14.934
We're supporting your choice.

01:00:15.730 --> 01:00:18.199
Yeah it was, how you know, that comment was off.

01:00:18.199 --> 01:00:22.541
Stress plus labor doesn't mess.

01:00:22.541 --> 01:00:26.019
Yeah, yeah, mental psychies of baby lawyers is.

01:00:26.250 --> 01:00:26.771
But I'll tell you.

01:00:26.831 --> 01:00:35.076
So you know it was nice to go into labor because if you were anything like me, you look down and you're like ah, or apathy has to come out of me.

01:00:36.090 --> 01:00:41.951
And when you, when I woke up that day and hard for labor, I'm like the baby out, just get the baby out, just get the.

01:00:41.951 --> 01:00:44.480
You know like it was this weird feeling.

01:00:44.480 --> 01:00:49.916
You know it's like you're having contractions, your body response, but mentally you want the pain to stop eventually.

01:00:49.916 --> 01:00:52.097
So you're just like get the baby out, get the baby out.

01:00:52.097 --> 01:01:12.952
It's interesting because then I had two scheduled elective C-sections after that and I definitely because I definitely could not to be that vaginal birth after C-section, just because again me, and so I had the scheduled C-section, so I would go into the hospital have a C-section and it was so eerie that was.

01:01:13.253 --> 01:01:18.978
It was like you know, you're just like, okay, they're just there, do surgery and cut the baby out.

01:01:18.978 --> 01:01:20.512
Okay, so you?

01:01:20.532 --> 01:01:21.173
know it is.

01:01:21.514 --> 01:01:26.536
It was definitely mentally like it was nice to go into labor because you're just like get the baby out.

01:01:26.536 --> 01:01:33.398
It was definitely harder to you know have an elective C-section mentally because you don't have those normal body tubes.

01:01:34.251 --> 01:01:35.054
The baby out.

01:01:35.173 --> 01:01:46.539
Actually I wrote that in my book that the mental psyche, because I do have a chapter on C-section and I did do the difference of the mental psyche and going into labor versus not.

01:01:46.849 --> 01:01:55.818
Yeah, I mean, and there's benefits and drawbacks to everything and it's so important to know where you land on all of that and so that you knew what you want was great.

01:01:55.818 --> 01:02:03.315
And I know people that I don't know very many, but I know people that choose an elective C-section just because that's their comfort level.

01:02:03.315 --> 01:02:06.438
Now, there's definitely risks to a C-section.

01:02:06.438 --> 01:02:12.478
It's a major abdominal surgery, you're gonna use anesthesia, but that doesn't mean that you're wrong for wanting one.

01:02:12.478 --> 01:02:18.117
So just knowing where you land and where your comfort zone is really, really, really important.

01:02:18.117 --> 01:02:27.737
And that only comes from knowledge and looking for that knowledge and seeking it out and wrapping your head around it and processing and all the things you need to do to make informed decisions.

01:02:28.119 --> 01:02:29.061
Yeah, 100%.

01:02:29.061 --> 01:02:30.856
And you know my kids too.

01:02:30.856 --> 01:02:33.438
I would never tell my kids to have an elective C-section.

01:02:33.750 --> 01:02:38.875
You know that's because of what I know, not ever tell them so same thing with your audience.

01:02:38.875 --> 01:02:40.235
I would never tell you guys to have it.

01:02:40.235 --> 01:02:41.494
It was just me.

01:02:41.494 --> 01:02:44.911
You know me personally, but you know again, that's just a bring.

01:02:44.911 --> 01:02:51.000
That nieces-straightful circle that day on the PORKS really stuck with me.

01:02:51.000 --> 01:03:01.496
And then the thought of not being around my kids, you know, for the birth of my grandkids sat in because obviously how I would prepare them is completely different than how like a normal family would prepare.

01:03:01.496 --> 01:03:08.237
So that's what happened is I actually was like for my kids, I'm like what if I'm 1100 miles away from them that day?

01:03:08.237 --> 01:03:10.862
That's how far I was, 1100 miles from Sam that day.

01:03:10.884 --> 01:03:13.675
I don't know if they said that, so I couldn't get up to the hospital or anything.

01:03:13.675 --> 01:03:15.161
So that's what happened.

01:03:15.161 --> 01:03:29.394
And then I'm like, once I'm writing, and then that's when I'm like, oh my goodness, I know a lot of information that is not out there that can help families have a healthy baby, and it's all stuff that just right in line with what you're saying, kelly.

01:03:29.394 --> 01:03:30.795
So I just absolutely love it.

01:03:30.976 --> 01:03:34.896
Yeah Well, Gina, is there anything else that you wanted to talk about that we didn't cover?

01:03:35.309 --> 01:03:36.534
No, we've covered a lot.

01:03:36.534 --> 01:03:41.356
Yeah, can I tell your audience that chapter one of my book is on my website for free.

01:03:41.871 --> 01:03:42.936
Oh no, I didn't know that.

01:03:43.090 --> 01:03:46.277
No, I couldn't, did I, and I'm like that was a little over an hour ago.

01:03:46.449 --> 01:03:47.052
So I came over.

01:03:47.550 --> 01:04:00.438
No, I think that last that is so incredibly important, that chapter, that I just keep it up there that way, if you just want to go through the lessons and then each lesson is a subsequent chapter.

01:04:00.438 --> 01:04:04.559
So chapter one learn about labor and delivery.

01:04:04.559 --> 01:04:10.655
So then chapter two then is what I believe is important about labor and delivery.

01:04:10.655 --> 01:04:16.297
That will give parents a good basis to help them make some good decisions during labor.

01:04:16.297 --> 01:04:27.416
So go there and then you can check that out and definitely in the subsequent chapters like that's really where I here's the lesson you can learn from it, but then the chapters will go through.

01:04:27.416 --> 01:04:30.597
Okay, this is how to make sure you have a healthy baby.

01:04:31.039 --> 01:04:34.496
Yeah, and just as a reminder, where can they find that?

01:04:34.496 --> 01:04:35.532
What's your website?

01:04:36.369 --> 01:04:43.737
Oh, ginamundicom, g-i-n-a-m-u-n-d-ycom, and these days, if you just Google it, yeah.

01:04:43.737 --> 01:04:53.059
I'll put it in the show notes as well you know if you Googled me one year ago today, like nothing popped up, like they Google, like who the heck is Gina Mundi?

01:04:53.059 --> 01:04:56.137
Now you know, you know you publish a book.

01:04:56.137 --> 01:04:59.179
You're out there advocating for healthy babies.

01:04:59.179 --> 01:05:00.755
Google's like this is Gina Mundi.

01:05:00.755 --> 01:05:04.119
But then again, I guess I didn't have my website back then.

01:05:04.119 --> 01:05:11.259
But no, just being like, I think, a lot of shows and podcasts and just books and out there, just kind of changed some stuff.

01:05:11.630 --> 01:05:12.635
Absolutely healthy babies.

01:05:13.130 --> 01:05:14.715
I would prefer not to have a job.

01:05:15.579 --> 01:05:16.570
Right, exactly Like.

01:05:16.570 --> 01:05:24.878
It'd be really lovely if we could just like retire on a beach, knowing that everybody has a safe and joyful and non-traumatic delivery.

01:05:24.878 --> 01:05:25.496
That'd be great.

01:05:26.530 --> 01:05:29.681
Yes, I'm good, please put me out of business.

01:05:29.681 --> 01:05:30.206
Yes, do it.

01:05:30.206 --> 01:05:33.719
I'd be so incredibly happy if I did not have a job.

01:05:33.878 --> 01:05:36.518
So no, gina and Kelly want to retire together in Bali.

01:05:36.518 --> 01:05:37.858
Yeah, I love it.

01:05:38.190 --> 01:05:38.932
There you go right.

01:05:38.932 --> 01:05:46.378
Yeah, no, I'm still a partner in a law firm and I checked my email today and I got records in on a new case.

01:05:46.789 --> 01:05:48.036
So it's still happening.

01:05:48.036 --> 01:05:55.760
Yeah Well, I hope the case slowed slows down because the book purchasing has gone up.

01:05:57.371 --> 01:05:58.275
Yeah, I will watch me.

01:05:58.275 --> 01:06:01.733
I'm keeping track, yeah, of the correlation.

01:06:01.733 --> 01:06:02.436
I'll tell you.

01:06:02.436 --> 01:06:09.994
And then, if you go to my Amazon reviews, like I read one on Tuesday, february 6th 2024, you can look it up.

01:06:09.994 --> 01:06:12.838
But I woke up 3 am.

01:06:12.838 --> 01:06:15.458
I get up every day at 3 am, by the way, and I yeah.

01:06:15.458 --> 01:06:18.875
You need to talk to you about how you do that Because, yeah, you know what?

01:06:18.875 --> 01:06:19.914
I ended up loving it.

01:06:19.914 --> 01:06:21.836
Well, I had to write the book in the middle of the night.

01:06:21.989 --> 01:06:23.315
I'm still a partner in a law firm.

01:06:23.315 --> 01:06:27.400
You know I'm still in my husband's busy business owner.

01:06:27.400 --> 01:06:30.114
This week my kids like I don't want her out lunch anymore.

01:06:30.114 --> 01:06:31.315
I'm like we don't have any food here.

01:06:31.315 --> 01:06:33.175
You know it's like walk to the store.

01:06:33.175 --> 01:06:35.373
You know we have leftovers Right.

01:06:35.393 --> 01:06:36.896
What do you think we're gonna take?

01:06:36.896 --> 01:06:37.719
This isn't a store.

01:06:37.778 --> 01:06:41.257
Right and I had to pack cold wine so I was like I can't put one more thing on my plate.

01:06:41.257 --> 01:06:47.838
But no, so I woke up at 3 am on Tuesday and there was a review from that day.

01:06:47.838 --> 01:06:57.942
So I don't know where she is and I don't know anything about it, but she basically was like you know, I had a healthy baby, a perfect baby girl, yesterday.

01:06:57.942 --> 01:06:59.615
So she had the baby the day before.

01:06:59.615 --> 01:07:15.179
She went through in that review how my book helped her and it's a pretty long review and I just I actually or you can go to at Gina Mundy on Instagram I actually posted that review on Instagram.

01:07:15.179 --> 01:07:17.777
It has to be three, whatever.

01:07:17.777 --> 01:07:25.211
It's a video, but I just cried, yeah, and she's just like everybody passed day of this book, but it was.

01:07:25.211 --> 01:07:26.396
When you're out there doing it.

01:07:26.396 --> 01:07:28.637
It's amazing to read those reviews.

01:07:28.637 --> 01:07:30.677
I get a lot of dad reviews, by the way.

01:07:30.757 --> 01:07:32.855
Because of that chapter, the ones that are in the fatal position?

01:07:32.875 --> 01:07:33.818
Yeah, the ones that are not.

01:07:33.818 --> 01:07:36.849
The cool dads yeah, cool dads, leave me reviews.

01:07:36.849 --> 01:07:39.599
So I'm going to actually go over the dad reviews.

01:07:39.599 --> 01:07:42.619
And then grandma reviews yeah, grandma's folks.

01:07:43.409 --> 01:07:44.992
Definitely Well, gina.

01:07:44.992 --> 01:07:46.137
Thank you so much.

01:07:46.137 --> 01:07:50.340
It has been so informative and eye opening and enlightening.

01:07:50.340 --> 01:07:57.420
I'm really glad that we connected and I'm really glad that my listeners got to hear what you have to say about having a safe hospital birth.

01:07:57.610 --> 01:07:59.016
Well, kelly, thank you for having me.

01:07:59.016 --> 01:08:08.574
I really enjoyed today's conversation and I just love how we're on the same page Out there trying to help families have a healthy baby, and you are awesome, thank you.

01:08:08.969 --> 01:08:10.177
Welcome to you.