Want to work one on one with me? Click here to make me your prenatal coach!
Oct. 2, 2023

Stefanie Fernandes: Navigating Birth, Childcare, and Motherhood in Denmark

Stefanie Fernandes: Navigating Birth, Childcare, and Motherhood in Denmark

Send us a text

Have you ever wondered what giving birth in a foreign country might feel like? We plunge into an engaging conversation with Stefanie Fernandes, a certified parenting coach and hypnobirthing teacher, who courageously navigates us through her intriguing birthing experiences in Denmark. Despite encountering language barriers and differences in medical care, Stefanie casts a comforting light on her experiences, describing the warmth and control she felt throughout her journey. She even takes us through the unexpected moment when her labor started at home and she was instructed to wait before heading to the hospital.

As we move deeper into Stefanie's experiences, we discuss the emotional and psychological support available in Denmark, emphasizing the crucial role it played in her and her partner's journey. We learn about Stefanie's various checkups, the preparation by the midwives, and the power of personal affirmations during birth. Furthermore, we explore Stefanie's hypnobirthing experience and the steps her hospital took to promote a more natural birth experience.

Finally, we switch gears to discuss Denmark's child care system, the freedom in their education system, and the immediate need for pelvic floor specialists post-delivery. Stephanie shares her reflections on the unrealistic expectations she had about the postpartum period and how she learned to accept and honor her experiences. We conclude with a deep dive into how mothers can reclaim their birth stories and how healthcare providers can better support this process. This conversation is a treasure trove of insights into birthing, child care, and motherhood from a perspective that might be different from yours. Tune in to get a glimpse of Stefanie's remarkable journey!

Join the Bump & Beyond Online Community for moms & moms-to-be!

Coaching offer

Kelly Hof: Labor Nurse + Birth Coach
Basically, I'm your birth bestie! With me as your coach, you will tell fear to take a hike!

Support the Show.


Connect with Kelly Hof at kellyhof.com

Medical Disclaimer:
This podcast is intended as a safe space for women to share their birth experiences. It is not intended to provide medical advice. Each woman’s medical course of action is individual and may not appropriately transfer to another similar situation. Please speak to your medical provider before making any medical decisions. Additionally, it is important to keep in mind that evidence based practice evolves as our knowledge of science improves. To the best of my ability I will attempt to present the most current ACOG and AWHONN recommendations at the time the podcast is recorded, but that may not necessarily reflect the best practices at the time the podcast is heard. Additionally, guests sharing their stories have the right to autonomy in their medical decisions, and may share their choice to go against current practice recommendations. I intend to hold space for people to share their decisions. I will attempt to share the current recommendations so that my audience is informed, but it is up to each individual to choose what is best for them.

Chapters

00:00 - Stephanie Fernandez's Birth Stories in Denmark

19:34 - Positive Birth Experiences and Emotional Support

35:20 - Hypnobirthing and Postpartum Support

50:09 - Child Care and Pelvic Floor Care

57:43 - Reframing Birth Stories

Transcript
WEBVTT

00:00:00.261 --> 00:00:04.110
Hello, today I have with me Stephanie Fernandez.

00:00:04.110 --> 00:00:14.211
Stephanie is a certified parent coach with a GI Institute for Parenting and a rapid transformational therapy practitioner trained under Marisa Peer.

00:00:14.211 --> 00:00:22.769
Recently, she added brainworking recursive therapy to her portfolio to help parents to resolve emotional triggers more effectively.

00:00:22.769 --> 00:00:37.753
She is also a hypnobirthing teacher, providing antenatal classes where pregnant people prepare for birth with an empowered and confident mindset, allowing for a positive birth and paving the way for a positive and conscious parenting journey.

00:00:37.753 --> 00:00:48.813
As a cycle starter, stephanie is passionate about teaching mothers in all stages of motherhood applicable tools for a better well-being of the mother and a deeper connection with her children.

00:00:48.813 --> 00:00:57.630
She is convinced that the quality of the relationship a mom has with herself determines the quality of the relationship she has with her child.

00:00:57.630 --> 00:00:59.646
It all starts with us as mothers.

00:00:59.646 --> 00:01:14.890
As a rapid transformational therapy practitioner, stephanie facilitates deep healing, often generational, of childhood trauma that still manifests in dysfunctional parenting patterns such as yelling, shaming or emotional neglect.

00:01:14.890 --> 00:01:19.471
Stephanie's mission is to help raise a healthier next generation.

00:01:19.981 --> 00:01:22.040
Stephanie is here today to tell her birth stories.

00:01:22.040 --> 00:01:27.052
She delivered both babies in Denmark and she is going to share those birth stories with us.

00:01:27.052 --> 00:01:32.471
To connect with Stephanie, you can go to wwwsteffaniefernandezcom.

00:01:32.471 --> 00:01:36.370
You can also connect with her on Facebook and Instagram.

00:01:36.370 --> 00:01:40.090
Stephanie, welcome and thank you so much for joining me.

00:01:40.090 --> 00:01:42.387
Hi Kelly, thank you so much for having me.

00:01:42.387 --> 00:01:57.605
Yeah, I'm really excited to hear about how your births were in Denmark and how that might compare to births here in the US, and also what the support is like in Denmark for postpartum moms.

00:01:57.605 --> 00:02:00.628
I feel like you have a lot of wisdom to offer us.

00:02:01.100 --> 00:02:08.329
I'm really excited to be here and thank you so much for giving me this opportunity to talk about giving birth in a very small country.

00:02:08.329 --> 00:02:20.735
But I feel a lot of people have an opinion about this Scandinavian culture, so I hope to shed a little bit of light today into how this was for me as a foreign mom giving birth here.

00:02:20.735 --> 00:02:50.867
For us birth was different than we planned and even though I didn't plan much because I was just not as prepared as in hindsight I think I could have been but we had a few difficulties during birth and giving birth in a country where you don't speak the language At that time I didn't speak the language you can really have some challenges and to natively.

00:02:50.867 --> 00:02:58.800
The care is also very different than what I would be used to from my home country and you mainly meet midwives.

00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:08.006
I didn't meet a single doctor during my pregnancy except of the first two weeks In the first trimester.

00:03:08.006 --> 00:03:11.623
I met my GP once just to confirm that I'm pregnant and that was it.

00:03:11.623 --> 00:03:16.290
And we attended the birth preparation class.

00:03:16.290 --> 00:03:29.272
But knowing now what one can do preparing the mind and the body as a hypno-birthing teacher, I can see that there were quite a lot of gaps in how they helped me prepare and other couples there.

00:03:29.272 --> 00:03:39.729
It was basically just giving us a run-through of who is attending birth, so there are only midwives, unless there is really a medical emergency.

00:03:40.401 --> 00:04:01.819
So here in Denmark it's very midwifery and I don't know why it's already calmed me down because it gave me the sense of you know, it's not a medical emergency, it's just birth, and the fact that my pregnancy was so uncomplicated really also helped me to feel that Like it's just part of my life.

00:04:01.819 --> 00:04:06.651
This is not an extraordinary circumstance.

00:04:06.651 --> 00:04:09.759
Even though I am in my body, we're doing something extraordinary.

00:04:09.759 --> 00:04:11.900
It was very natural.

00:04:11.900 --> 00:04:13.558
So they gave us a quick run-through.

00:04:13.558 --> 00:04:17.279
I think it was like 45 minutes birth prep class.

00:04:17.279 --> 00:04:21.199
If you need medication, these are your options.

00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:24.800
If you want your partner to be there, these are your options.

00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:27.478
If you give birth at night, these are your options.

00:04:27.478 --> 00:04:29.899
If you want water birth, so it's so.

00:04:29.899 --> 00:04:33.180
So it was quite, very practical.

00:04:33.180 --> 00:04:34.738
I feel like that's how the Danes are.

00:04:34.738 --> 00:04:42.379
They like just very practical things, but they are also very sweet and very caring.

00:04:42.379 --> 00:04:43.290
So that was really nice.

00:04:45.004 --> 00:04:54.319
I felt throughout my whole pregnancy and during the birthing process that everyone was very caring and I actually never really felt out of control.

00:04:54.319 --> 00:04:58.379
I never really felt there's someone else who decides for me.

00:04:58.379 --> 00:05:01.540
As I said, I didn't have a birth plan.

00:05:01.540 --> 00:05:03.418
I was not very well prepared.

00:05:03.418 --> 00:05:13.560
So now that I work in the birthing context and working with moms, I can see that there's a lot of parents who particularly plan every single thing.

00:05:13.560 --> 00:05:20.360
I was not one of them, so I was quite hands off and very relaxed about it.

00:05:20.360 --> 00:05:23.165
I had a backpack and I had a little list.

00:05:23.886 --> 00:05:26.630
In case birth starts at night, what do we need to do?

00:05:26.630 --> 00:05:31.199
In case birth starts during the day, or labor starts during the day, what do we need to do?

00:05:31.199 --> 00:05:33.848
So more for my husband, I would say, than for me.

00:05:33.848 --> 00:05:38.399
He knows whom to call and where the bed is and which documents to bring.

00:05:38.399 --> 00:05:45.374
And we in Denmark here, we don't go to the hospital when labor starts.

00:05:45.374 --> 00:05:53.271
So you call and you say I think I'm in labor, because when you give birth for the first time, you are not very sure.

00:05:53.271 --> 00:05:55.355
But you're kind of sure, but not really.

00:05:55.355 --> 00:06:01.252
And they just ask okay, so how long apart are the contractions?

00:06:01.252 --> 00:06:03.944
And you need to provide that information.

00:06:03.944 --> 00:06:23.255
And then they say well, it sounds like you can still stay home for a little bit longer, so we would like you to be home in your environment, without the stress, without the smell of the hospital, without all that excitement, because it can easily happen that labor slows down when you come in at this stage.

00:06:23.255 --> 00:06:24.644
So we want you to stay home.

00:06:25.701 --> 00:06:33.120
And that was a bit of shock because I felt a bit like, but I don't know what I'm doing here, like I need to go to a hospital.

00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:34.858
I need you guys to look at.

00:06:34.858 --> 00:06:36.502
You know, is everything okay?

00:06:36.502 --> 00:06:40.021
But they were not up for negotiation.

00:06:40.021 --> 00:06:44.961
So we hung up, we watched a movie I don't remember what movie.

00:06:44.961 --> 00:06:49.766
I was so occupied and very excited as well.

00:06:50.214 --> 00:06:52.019
We called again.

00:06:52.019 --> 00:06:53.665
I think it was three hours later.

00:06:53.665 --> 00:06:58.081
The nurse on the phone asked my husband so can you give me Stephanie on the phone?

00:06:58.081 --> 00:06:58.925
Can you hand her the phone?

00:06:58.925 --> 00:07:01.783
I would like to talk to her to just see how she's doing.

00:07:01.783 --> 00:07:07.105
And then I just had a contraction and it was very loud.

00:07:07.105 --> 00:07:12.221
And she says well, it sounds like you guys are ready to come in, so you can come in.

00:07:13.536 --> 00:07:15.201
And then we went to the hospital.

00:07:15.201 --> 00:07:15.903
We called the cab.

00:07:15.903 --> 00:07:26.639
The cab driver knew exactly what was going on, because apparently he does that all the time, because you don't call an ambulance here and then, Mark, you just call a cab and they all know what to do.

00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:36.185
And it was just a very short ride, it was just 10 minutes and we already had a room ready because we were on their list for a few hours already.

00:07:36.185 --> 00:07:45.060
So they planned for us, which was very nice, and we even had a room with a birthing pool in the public hospital.

00:07:45.060 --> 00:07:51.661
So that's a public hospital that has that available and we had our own room.

00:07:51.661 --> 00:07:57.002
So that was very intimate, it was very cozy and it was not very busy.

00:07:57.274 --> 00:08:15.723
So we had one midwife that was in and out of the room but she never really brought an entourage of people, it was just her checking in on me and it was so calm, like, even though you know when it's your first birth and you don't really know how things will progress.

00:08:15.723 --> 00:08:23.766
You learn the stages of birth but when they happen you still are not really sure.

00:08:23.766 --> 00:08:26.321
Is that how it's supposed to be?

00:08:26.321 --> 00:08:27.103
Is that right?

00:08:27.103 --> 00:08:35.787
Because your brain is not really functioning in a logical way and I knew that I didn't want an epidural.

00:08:35.787 --> 00:08:58.035
I knew that I didn't want strong painkillers and I think that has something to do with my conviction that I had about myself that my body can do this, like, my mom birthed four kids and I didn't hear I didn't hear never anything about how hard birth was or how painful it is or it's.

00:08:58.035 --> 00:09:02.642
You cannot tolerate that and it's the worst thing that you ever felt.

00:09:03.414 --> 00:09:05.942
In my home, these sort of conversations didn't happen.

00:09:05.942 --> 00:09:07.898
It was also not.

00:09:07.898 --> 00:09:11.326
There was also not a lot of positive talk about birth.

00:09:11.326 --> 00:09:24.820
There was just no conversation about birth, and I think, while this can have downsides in other aspects of raising kids, that you don't share the difficulties and you don't share the struggle.

00:09:24.820 --> 00:09:40.440
I'm convinced, as a mom, that it's important to share with our kids so they learn and they develop a sense of realistic picture of how life is, including birth, but the fact that my mom didn't talk about it just gave me this idea.

00:09:40.440 --> 00:09:42.861
It's like the most normal thing on the planet.

00:09:42.861 --> 00:09:44.760
There is nothing to be afraid of.

00:09:45.655 --> 00:09:47.663
I didn't even consider having an epidural.

00:09:47.663 --> 00:10:00.424
For me, this is my body, my body was made for this and I can do that, and I am expecting, yes, that it's going to be very intense, but I didn't have a single doubt that my body can do this.

00:10:00.424 --> 00:10:14.846
I think that was so much in the forefront of my head all the time of my mind throughout I think it was 16 hours of labor that I can do this, of course.

00:10:14.846 --> 00:10:18.422
Then I came a time when I said I cannot do this more.

00:10:18.422 --> 00:10:20.187
I'm done, I'm tired.

00:10:20.187 --> 00:10:23.663
Sorry, guys, but you have to do this without me.

00:10:23.663 --> 00:10:27.660
I'm out, I cannot do this, and now I want an epidural.

00:10:27.660 --> 00:10:30.682
And my husband said well, you remember, honey?

00:10:30.682 --> 00:10:32.140
You said you don't want an epidural.

00:10:32.140 --> 00:10:33.719
And I said I don't care what.

00:10:33.719 --> 00:10:35.879
I said, I'm over this.

00:10:35.879 --> 00:10:39.719
It's going on for way too long and it's so painful I cannot do this more.

00:10:39.719 --> 00:10:42.822
And the midwife said you came all this way.

00:10:42.822 --> 00:10:43.325
You know what?

00:10:43.325 --> 00:10:45.181
It's too late for an epidural.

00:10:45.181 --> 00:10:50.142
This is the last stage of labor and we are not giving you an epidural.

00:10:50.142 --> 00:10:52.422
All you have to do now is push this baby out.

00:10:52.422 --> 00:10:56.600
And I'm like, really, you didn't say anything before.

00:10:56.600 --> 00:10:58.600
I felt a bit desperate.

00:10:58.600 --> 00:11:03.639
But when she said it's the last push, it's the last phase, it's really the last thing.

00:11:03.639 --> 00:11:07.859
You will meet your baby in just a few minutes, so you can do this.

00:11:07.859 --> 00:11:09.035
I thought, ok.

00:11:09.035 --> 00:11:12.864
Then I went OK, I do this, I'm doing this, let's do this.

00:11:12.864 --> 00:11:13.846
Are we ready?

00:11:13.846 --> 00:11:14.969
Are we ready to push?

00:11:14.969 --> 00:11:15.919
Yes, we're ready to push.

00:11:16.174 --> 00:11:22.821
And unfortunately he didn't come out as easy as I wished for him to come out.

00:11:22.821 --> 00:11:27.304
He got stuck and his heart rate decreased or sank.

00:11:27.304 --> 00:11:38.403
So they got really alarmed and even though before it was just one midwife within 10 seconds, I had, I think, 15 people in the room and they were all there to help birth this baby.

00:11:38.403 --> 00:11:42.059
They would even have done a C-section on the spot if they would have needed to.

00:11:42.059 --> 00:11:50.666
And he was born with a suction and they really had to pull him out hard.

00:11:50.666 --> 00:12:04.859
So he was really stuck with the shoulders and the umbilical cord was a bit short, so he just didn't have a lot of space, naturally, which we didn't know.

00:12:04.859 --> 00:12:11.423
And he also didn't breathe when he came out and he didn't start screaming immediately.

00:12:11.423 --> 00:12:17.418
And my husband got really upset and impatient and he said why is he not screaming?

00:12:17.418 --> 00:12:18.260
Why is he not screaming?

00:12:18.260 --> 00:12:18.942
What's happening?

00:12:18.942 --> 00:12:19.605
What's happening?

00:12:19.605 --> 00:12:26.647
And he got really upset about it and all I was laying there and all I thought and I told him he has time, give him time.

00:12:26.647 --> 00:12:29.996
He has all the time, give him time, he's OK, he's OK.

00:12:29.996 --> 00:12:36.039
And they took him away because he didn't start screaming and he didn't start breathing.

00:12:36.039 --> 00:12:45.226
So they took him away and it took care of him and he was intubated and he had to go to the neonatal intensive care unit.

00:12:45.226 --> 00:12:56.123
My husband went with him and he stayed there for the night and we didn't know if he can make it, will he make it, will he have brain damage?

00:12:56.123 --> 00:13:00.761
And they told us like that, they told us this, just like that.

00:13:00.761 --> 00:13:03.261
We don't know how he is going to wake up.

00:13:03.261 --> 00:13:11.741
We are going to wean him from the ventilator in the morning and then we'll see.

00:13:11.741 --> 00:13:14.442
And we just have to wait and see.

00:13:14.442 --> 00:13:16.000
There's nothing more we can do.

00:13:17.416 --> 00:13:22.221
I was, interestingly, I was not nervous and I was not scared.

00:13:22.221 --> 00:13:26.784
I was a bit in shock, of course, because he was not with me.

00:13:26.784 --> 00:13:30.820
I felt that was not natural, there is something missing.

00:13:30.820 --> 00:13:34.538
I went for a shower, I ate, and he was not there.

00:13:34.538 --> 00:13:39.541
And they brought me to him and they put me in a wheelchair.

00:13:39.541 --> 00:13:46.559
And I'm not sitting in a wheelchair, I'm walking, just like with anything in my pregnancy and during birth.

00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:47.818
It's like the most natural thing.

00:13:47.818 --> 00:13:48.400
I can walk.

00:13:48.400 --> 00:13:55.863
I just delivered, yes, but I can walk, and I had second degree tears and I was walking the whole way to meet him.

00:13:56.794 --> 00:14:08.841
So I think I was in shock of what happened, just didn't really, I was not really aware of it and I looked at him in that little bed with the ventilator and I knew that he's going to be fine.

00:14:08.841 --> 00:14:11.682
I just knew it in my body.

00:14:11.682 --> 00:14:20.765
There was a sense of relief when I saw him and we stayed next to him in that little room the whole night.

00:14:20.765 --> 00:14:24.702
I was introduced to the pump.

00:14:24.702 --> 00:14:31.500
They told me I should pump so that they could give him my milk and that didn't work.

00:14:31.500 --> 00:14:32.804
There was more stress.

00:14:32.804 --> 00:14:49.063
I think that was more stress than anything because I felt that was not how it's supposed to be and my mind was so much with him that I couldn't relax, letting go of the milk, and I didn't sleep a single minute during that night.

00:14:49.835 --> 00:14:57.962
And the next morning, when they weaned him from the ventilator and he started breathing out by himself and he woke up and he was just fine.

00:14:57.962 --> 00:15:08.240
From what we could say, what we could tell in the moment, I was not even very relieved because I felt always yes, this is he's good, everything is good.

00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:17.104
And the fact that we had this midwife almost from start to finish and throughout the night she came checking on me.

00:15:17.104 --> 00:15:20.443
There was such a bond with her and me.

00:15:20.443 --> 00:15:25.563
This was so nice and I wish that every woman has that.

00:15:25.563 --> 00:15:56.625
I didn't even know this midwife, but the fact that she was so dedicated that there was not a lot of distraction there were no other people it was not the doctor who decided, it was us as a team who decided what we are going to do, how I'm going to do this that this was, I think, the most beautiful thing about this whole hospital birth, because I know that hospital birth can be so anonymous and cold.

00:15:56.625 --> 00:16:17.982
I didn't experience this at all that way, and I even felt a bit silly because the day after, when I went for a walk around the hospital, I saw her in the evening coming back to her night shift, starting her night shift, and I was shouting through the hallway her name and I was like you're back, you're back.

00:16:17.982 --> 00:16:24.405
And I felt like you're my friend now and she was like oh yeah, remember you, how are you doing?

00:16:24.405 --> 00:16:36.663
And then I felt, ok, that's a bit awkward because we're not friends, this is your job, but I still feel so connected to you because I will always remember you for the beautiful thing that you did and that you helped me with.

00:16:37.975 --> 00:16:45.558
And here in Denmark you receive, if you had a traumatic birth, both the birthing person and the birthing partner.

00:16:45.558 --> 00:16:50.179
They receive psychological support afterwards and that immediately kicked in.

00:16:50.179 --> 00:16:58.525
So they immediately got informed about our case and started visiting us in the hospital.

00:16:58.525 --> 00:17:19.538
We were discharged three days later and we had a home nurse that came to visit and this psychologist, and then we also got referrals to meet a psychologist as part of our checkups in the hospital and I think that was really really nice and it was very helpful to.

00:17:20.442 --> 00:17:28.163
Without being this being a pathological thing, it doesn't need to have a diagnosis of PTSD.

00:17:28.163 --> 00:17:35.183
Nobody even did an assessment and I felt that was very easy.

00:17:35.183 --> 00:17:42.541
The barrier for accepting the support was very low Because it was just we can just talk.

00:17:42.541 --> 00:17:48.300
You are invited to come in and you just tell us what you experienced.

00:17:48.300 --> 00:17:49.961
How was this experience for you?

00:17:49.961 --> 00:17:52.259
There's no right or wrong.

00:17:52.259 --> 00:17:54.442
Your husband experienced it differently than you.

00:17:54.442 --> 00:18:02.046
What the nurse wrote in her journal is different than what you experienced, so there is no judgment here.

00:18:02.046 --> 00:18:05.317
No-transcript I have.

00:18:05.376 --> 00:18:16.295
Everyone who brought home a baby knows that you don't sleep, you're excited, you kind of lose not really the connection, but you're not so focused on your partner and that's what happened to us.

00:18:16.295 --> 00:18:25.040
So I actually never asked my husband how was this for you and he didn't feel comfortable to share how it was for him.

00:18:25.040 --> 00:18:32.724
For him it was much more traumatizing that it was for me, but he didn't want to burden me with this because we just had a baby.

00:18:32.724 --> 00:18:33.626
We brought him home.

00:18:33.626 --> 00:18:37.182
Everything seems fine now, so why make a big deal out of it?

00:18:37.182 --> 00:18:45.507
And he had the chance to just tell his side of the story and he still says that was very, very beneficial for him.

00:18:45.507 --> 00:19:04.545
And once he told his story how he perceived it, how difficult these few minutes were when the baby was not screaming, when all of a sudden all these doctors entered the room kind of ready to get this baby out, then he felt the rush of emergency.

00:19:04.545 --> 00:19:06.992
That was the most difficult part for him.

00:19:06.992 --> 00:19:12.753
And once he told this to someone who was not there just laying it all out, he could sleep again.

00:19:12.753 --> 00:19:18.934
And I think that's the most profound experience for me because I was so focused on myself and the baby.

00:19:18.934 --> 00:19:41.307
But then it was him who struggled so much and we focus so much on the mother and I do too in my work but I can see the benefits that working with a mental health practitioner, with the birth thing partner, that has such a huge benefit for the whole family, for the whole team, for everyone.

00:19:41.307 --> 00:19:43.037
So that was really beautiful.

00:19:44.278 --> 00:19:52.717
And because the first birth was complicated, we were on kind of a list for the second birth.

00:19:52.717 --> 00:19:59.088
So during pregnancy they asked us to come in much more often for checkups.

00:19:59.088 --> 00:20:03.048
They also saw us in the hospital, which was a new experience.

00:20:03.048 --> 00:20:08.542
I didn't have that experience in my first pregnancy and they were very.

00:20:08.542 --> 00:20:14.835
They were a bit worried, but without saying we are worried.

00:20:14.835 --> 00:20:21.753
So there I felt the whole transparency and yes, we are a team and we do this.

00:20:21.753 --> 00:20:22.035
Naturally.

00:20:22.035 --> 00:20:25.884
That was a bit missing during my second pregnancy.

00:20:25.884 --> 00:20:35.453
They didn't want to alarm me or upset me, but as a mom you feel if there is something off, and why would I go to the hospital?

00:20:35.453 --> 00:20:39.807
When my first pregnancy I never saw the hospital from the inside.

00:20:39.807 --> 00:20:46.672
They just wanted to make sure that they are prepared for everything that could happen during birth and it was so easy.

00:20:46.692 --> 00:20:53.532
I fortunately I didn't lose the mindset and the trust in myself that my body was made to do this.

00:20:53.553 --> 00:20:58.967
Every woman on this planet birthed before me, every person I meet, has been birthed.

00:21:00.109 --> 00:21:00.790
I can do this.

00:21:00.790 --> 00:21:01.953
It's okay.

00:21:01.953 --> 00:21:10.954
The first experience doesn't have to determine the second experience and I'm glad that I could.

00:21:10.954 --> 00:21:21.048
I could enjoy that because with the second pregnancy also, there's a ton of running around, you're more tired, you don't have so much motivation and time.

00:21:21.048 --> 00:21:26.827
I think it's more motivation to write a beautiful pregnancy journal, take a bump picture every month.

00:21:27.570 --> 00:21:41.084
Things are just different with second birth and second pregnancy and I'm happy that I had a very good second birth, very fast and an excellent midwife who you know how.

00:21:41.084 --> 00:21:46.998
It's funny when midwives kind of know what you need to kind of support you during birth.

00:21:46.998 --> 00:21:58.785
I didn't know her, so it was a different midwife and when the last phase of birth started, I was so scared.

00:21:58.785 --> 00:22:06.488
I was so scared all of a sudden and she said Stephanie, you're so strong, you can do this.

00:22:06.488 --> 00:22:17.101
And being strong has always been very important for me because I'm short and I'm not, compared to other people, not very strong, but I was always so determined.

00:22:17.101 --> 00:22:19.971
I don't let my height define what I can achieve.

00:22:19.971 --> 00:22:21.054
I was always very good at sports.

00:22:21.054 --> 00:22:24.724
I was always very fast in running.

00:22:24.724 --> 00:22:27.252
Sprinting was my most favorite sports.

00:22:27.252 --> 00:22:27.875
I did volleyball and rowing.

00:22:27.875 --> 00:22:40.242
I did everything and this inherent need for me to be strong just helped me kick this through and see, you're so strong and I'm like I know I'm strong, let's do this.

00:22:40.403 --> 00:22:51.259
And then the baby was out and I get goosebumps because you hear about all these birth affirmations and have those affirmations ready and your birthing partner reads them out.

00:22:51.259 --> 00:23:05.280
But if they don't, if they don't touch your heart, if they don't speak to your personality and your needs and your wishes and your convictions, then birth affirmations are just sentences.

00:23:05.280 --> 00:23:23.077
So make sure, really, that these affirmations are yours and you own them, so that in those difficult times when you feel I cannot sorry, guys, I'm out, I cannot more, it's so hard, and when you hear such an affirmation, you are strong, whatever it is that works for you.

00:23:23.077 --> 00:23:26.305
For me it was that you're so strong and yes, I am.

00:23:26.305 --> 00:23:27.387
And there he was.

00:23:28.174 --> 00:23:43.640
And I gave birth alone, without my husband, because he picked up our toddler from kindergarten and we live here in Denmark without family, so we also didn't have anyone who could just pick him up and watch him while I give birth.

00:23:43.640 --> 00:23:54.454
And so they were at the trampoline the minute that my second one was born, and it's actually a cute story that we tell him when we go to the trampoline in that park.

00:23:54.454 --> 00:24:08.459
They say you know, your big brother was here jumping on the trampolines while you were born, just over there in the hospital, and it gives all of us kind of a sense of we were still connected even though we were not together.

00:24:08.459 --> 00:24:10.244
So that was really beautiful.

00:24:10.244 --> 00:24:15.763
And in Denmark, just after a few hours after birth, you're being discharged.

00:24:15.763 --> 00:24:16.707
The first thing was fine.

00:24:16.707 --> 00:24:26.138
So we were discharged just a few hours later and going home with a brand new baby, with a very positive birth experience second time around.

00:24:27.685 --> 00:24:36.615
But I also have to say that even though the first birth was problematic, it was positive and it can be difficult but it can still be positive.

00:24:36.615 --> 00:24:52.652
So that's the paradox about difficult births or pregnancies, or difficult postpartum because we feel everything that happens, everything bad that happens, is kind of this overshadowing cloud and then I cannot see the good.

00:24:52.652 --> 00:25:05.704
But once you've cleared that cloud with support, with therapy, with help, whatever it is, with a mom, with your best friend who comes to support, you can clear that cloud and then in the end you can look back and still remember this.

00:25:05.704 --> 00:25:08.374
Yes, it was tough, but I have to say it was positive.

00:25:08.374 --> 00:25:10.305
It's actually pretty beautiful.

00:25:10.305 --> 00:25:15.144
So it's six years ago and I still feel very connected to the experience.

00:25:15.144 --> 00:25:18.904
So I have implicit memory stored in my body.

00:25:19.307 --> 00:25:24.143
I can feel that when I'm talking I get very emotional and I don't know if it will ever leave me.

00:25:24.143 --> 00:25:26.884
Probably not, maybe even because I don't want it to leave me.

00:25:26.884 --> 00:25:35.209
I want this to be part of me and when I look at my six-year-old, who started school a few weeks ago, I cannot believe.

00:25:35.209 --> 00:25:41.538
And I tell him you know, just six years ago you were in that hospital bed and we didn't know that you will.

00:25:41.538 --> 00:25:42.082
You make it.

00:25:42.082 --> 00:25:42.664
How will you make it?

00:25:42.664 --> 00:25:59.718
And now you are so smart and so beautiful and such an amazing boy and also knowing me at times very much is your job and it's just part of our story and part of our relationship as well that we have with each other.

00:25:59.845 --> 00:26:00.849
That's so amazing.

00:26:00.849 --> 00:26:15.536
I really love how that experience that turned scary was still a positive birth experience for you, and that's one of my biggest goals in doing my podcast and as a labor nurse.

00:26:15.536 --> 00:26:33.896
I really want moms to feel both empowered and, even when we have things go a little bit, not how we expected, to be able to understand that we are trying to help them and we can work together as a team for the outcome that we all hope for.

00:26:33.896 --> 00:26:55.912
So I really love that you were able to give birth naturally and have a shoulder dystocia, which can be incredibly traumatic and painful, but also you were able to frame that as a positive experience because you had people that were supportive of you emotionally and that you trusted, and I think that's really important.

00:26:56.224 --> 00:26:58.913
I have so many things that I want to talk about.

00:26:58.913 --> 00:27:02.664
The first thing that I want to address is the shoulder dystocia.

00:27:02.664 --> 00:27:10.894
I wonder if you remember the interventions other than the suction that you mentioned, so the vacuum that they put on the baby's head.

00:27:10.894 --> 00:27:12.869
Do you remember what else that they did?

00:27:12.869 --> 00:27:14.394
Did they change your position at all?

00:27:14.394 --> 00:27:14.945
They?

00:27:15.006 --> 00:27:16.368
didn't change my position.

00:27:16.368 --> 00:27:18.253
They cut me.

00:27:18.634 --> 00:27:18.895
Okay.

00:27:19.565 --> 00:27:31.467
And then I didn't see what they were doing, but I felt a hand and then the relief was there in the moment, got it.

00:27:32.265 --> 00:27:35.635
So when they cut you, that's an apesiautomy.

00:27:35.635 --> 00:27:36.607
Did you feel that?

00:27:36.607 --> 00:27:38.193
Did you feel pain when they did that?

00:27:38.625 --> 00:27:45.199
They did it during a contraction and they told me that we're going to wait for the next contraction.

00:27:45.199 --> 00:27:46.249
And then we cut you.

00:27:46.589 --> 00:27:46.851
Yeah.

00:27:47.685 --> 00:27:55.431
And I was really scared because it sounds so scary, like I don't want anyone to cut me, and she said you will not feel it.

00:27:55.431 --> 00:27:56.835
And it's true, I didn't feel it.

00:27:56.835 --> 00:28:06.352
She said focus on the contraction and breathe and hold my hand, but not so strong, because I really squeezed her hand, not so strong, you're hurting me.

00:28:06.352 --> 00:28:09.943
And then the contraction was over and then the cut was done.

00:28:09.943 --> 00:28:11.307
Yeah, Okay.

00:28:11.868 --> 00:28:25.317
So what it sounds like they were doing was, first of all, waiting until your baby's head was stretching your perineum enough that those nerves were stretched that you wouldn't feel the sharp pain of the release of your perineum.

00:28:25.317 --> 00:28:29.553
So when they cut it, they're releasing your perineum and I'm sure you know all this.

00:28:29.553 --> 00:28:41.855
I'm explaining it for listeners because this sounds scary, but I want people to kind of wrap their heads around some of the potential things that can happen during the birthing process so that we don't enter with fear.

00:28:41.855 --> 00:28:55.205
And when you cut that apesiodomy with a shoulder dissociation, that is definitely one of the interventions that can be deemed necessary to make space in the body for the baby's shoulders to come out.

00:28:55.205 --> 00:28:58.954
And if it's stretched appropriately, those nerves are stretched.

00:28:58.954 --> 00:29:01.410
There isn't as much sensation down there.

00:29:01.410 --> 00:29:15.102
So you start with the ring of fire when the baby's head starts coming down and begins to stretch the perineum and then after that, people that have had natural births say that it starts to go away, especially when there's more pressure and more stretching.

00:29:15.182 --> 00:29:27.806
So they probably waited while that baby's head was stretching the perineum and they did the cut and then it sounds like if you felt them stick their hands inside, they were probably trying to release that posterior shoulder.

00:29:27.806 --> 00:29:35.209
So the anterior shoulder that's kind of perpendicular with your pubic bone and running into that pubic bone.

00:29:35.209 --> 00:29:38.240
That one is the one that's quote unquote stuck.

00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:42.439
The one that they're trying to get is the one that's posterior and they bring the arm out.

00:29:42.439 --> 00:29:50.855
If they can deliver the head and the arm, then usually that top shoulder, the anterior shoulder, will release and you can deliver the baby and it sounds like they did that really effectively.

00:29:51.438 --> 00:30:04.886
So those are two interventions that are done for trying to relieve a shoulder dystocia and I have an entire episode on shoulder dystocia so I'm not going to go into all the other maneuvers because you can go and listen to it.

00:30:04.886 --> 00:30:11.406
My friend, dr Goldstein, explained so much better than I can how to relieve a shoulder dystocia.

00:30:11.406 --> 00:30:22.721
So the other thing that I wanted to talk about was did you do hypnoborthing before you delivered your babies or was that inspired afterwards?

00:30:23.102 --> 00:30:23.884
That was inspired afterwards.

00:30:23.884 --> 00:30:25.650
I didn't do it before.

00:30:25.910 --> 00:30:26.432
Amazing.

00:30:26.893 --> 00:30:30.241
In fact, I didn't even know about the concept.

00:30:30.241 --> 00:30:46.144
And only afterwards, when I came across this concept of how to prepare for birth in a more holistic and mindful way, I realized that how many boxes I naturally ticked without even knowing yeah.

00:30:46.486 --> 00:30:52.771
Yeah, because the way you did describe it sounds like the mindset of hypnoborthing, and I really like that.

00:30:52.837 --> 00:31:16.346
You are able to kind of come at it from a natural perspective and then just align with those principles once you realize that there is something out there that is very similar, because I never had the experience either of hypnoborthing and so now that I've talked to people that have gone through the process and I understand it a little bit more, I'm really excited when I get somebody that's doing the hypnoborthing, because I want to be able to help that process and kind of see it in action.

00:31:16.847 --> 00:31:17.829
So I think that's amazing.

00:31:17.829 --> 00:31:44.185
My understanding is that it's basically like you are saying that birth is a natural process and that your body's meant to do all of it and the sensations that you're feeling are not pathological, that they are your body doing what it's supposed to do, and so I think that it's so interesting that you went into it with that mindset and how effective that can be, when you think that the sensations that I'm feeling are not dangerous sensations, they're natural.

00:31:44.185 --> 00:32:00.752
And I think what we have, at least for the most part in the culture in the US or where I'm working, is a lot of people thinking that those sensations are not natural, and so then their mindset is that they feel like that they're being harmed by it.

00:32:00.792 --> 00:32:08.838
I think, yeah, I had a friend who, before birth, told me just remember, I'm just giving you one advice.

00:32:08.838 --> 00:32:14.090
Just remember, the pain you will feel does not harm you or your baby.

00:32:14.090 --> 00:32:17.356
Nothing is breaking inside of you.

00:32:17.356 --> 00:32:24.877
There's nothing wrong, because when we feel pain we're so conditioned that there's something wrong and we need to go fix it.

00:32:24.877 --> 00:32:31.916
And the birth pain, labor pain, is actually the only pain, or nothing is wrong.

00:32:31.916 --> 00:32:38.181
Everything is actually very fine and every contraction brings you closer to your baby.

00:32:38.181 --> 00:32:41.109
That's what she told me and I couldn't really understand.

00:32:41.109 --> 00:33:02.721
But then, when I felt the contractions, I thought this is what she meant and I really visualized how every contraction brings me closer to my baby, like really pushing the baby down a bit every time, a bit every time, and I really visualized this as not something breaking or something being wrong, but just moving the baby out.

00:33:02.721 --> 00:33:03.984
That was all that.

00:33:03.984 --> 00:33:07.553
That was all I needed to help me stay calm with it.

00:33:07.553 --> 00:33:12.053
And of course, I had amazing midwife who constantly assured me everything is fine.

00:33:12.454 --> 00:33:16.588
I was not on a monitor all the time so I could just get up to also feel.

00:33:16.588 --> 00:33:19.655
She said you know, you can get up, you can hold yourself here.

00:33:19.655 --> 00:33:35.670
Here's a ball, here's some some exercises you can do, like easy exercises, like you sit on a really low chair and see how that feels, like you can walk up and down the hallway, you can walk stairs, like it's fine, you don't have to lay here in bed.

00:33:35.670 --> 00:33:41.693
So these these feelings you have, these sensations you have in your body.

00:33:41.693 --> 00:33:43.721
They don't have to stay the same.

00:33:43.721 --> 00:33:45.768
Just you don't have to stay the same.

00:33:45.768 --> 00:33:49.436
You can move with them, move your hips and move around.

00:33:49.436 --> 00:33:56.913
You can get up, and that just also showed me that they don't have to constantly monitor me and the baby.

00:33:56.913 --> 00:33:59.958
That means it's actually everything, okay.

00:34:00.920 --> 00:34:05.868
Yeah, yeah, and we are trying to do that at the hospitals that I work at more and more.

00:34:05.868 --> 00:34:09.244
We do, trying to think of what the policies for both.

00:34:09.244 --> 00:34:22.092
But just a summary is like 20 minutes on and then 40 minutes off, or you can do an hour, depending on what the treatment plan is if it's an induction and then be off for a couple hours.

00:34:22.092 --> 00:34:25.443
So that's usually early labor.

00:34:25.443 --> 00:34:27.389
For natural labor it's a little bit different.

00:34:27.389 --> 00:34:29.235
You can be off for a while.

00:34:29.235 --> 00:34:33.447
It just all depends on what treatments were potentially giving.

00:34:33.447 --> 00:34:37.967
So we've tried to be more open to that and I feel like we're having better outcomes.

00:34:38.615 --> 00:34:48.195
The second, that there's any indication that the baby might not be tolerating labor as well as we'd hoped, then we would stay on the monitor longer.

00:34:48.195 --> 00:34:53.394
Or if we're moving around so much that we can't monitor the baby for those 20 minutes.

00:34:53.394 --> 00:35:01.603
So usually I try to get someone in a real comfortable position for that time so that we can be off the monitor for as long as possible.

00:35:01.603 --> 00:35:05.465
So those are options that I think are becoming more and more available.

00:35:05.465 --> 00:35:11.748
They're being recommended more by the governing bodies, acog and AWAN, for obstetrics and nursing.

00:35:11.748 --> 00:35:18.617
So I think hopefully we're moving towards a less pathophysiological birth more of a normal pathophysiological process.

00:35:18.617 --> 00:35:30.235
I was really interested in the psychological support that they gave you after the delivery and then they sent a home nurse and a psychologist to your house.

00:35:30.235 --> 00:35:36.057
Is that what they do for all families, or do they just do it for people that had a difficult birth?

00:35:36.378 --> 00:35:38.246
So the home nurse is standard.

00:35:38.246 --> 00:35:49.465
She comes home two days after you've been discharged, and then a week later, and then a week later, and then for the first year of a baby's life.

00:35:49.465 --> 00:36:02.885
She comes regularly and not so frequent if everything goes fine, but she comes regularly throughout the first year and even now my youngest is four and we just had the last visit.

00:36:02.885 --> 00:36:24.724
Wow, she was just checking in on him to see how is his speech, how are the teeth, how is his motoric skills, how are his social skills, just to really catch early things that otherwise a GP doesn't have time for, or in school, where they are not trained to see certain things.

00:36:24.724 --> 00:36:35.217
So yeah, it's amazing, it's really, really helpful and because of that one also feels more supported.

00:36:35.277 --> 00:36:38.532
Like I had a really tough postpartum period.

00:36:38.532 --> 00:36:47.217
The first three, four months were really really hard, but I'm not even sure if it was because of the baby and birth.

00:36:47.217 --> 00:37:04.413
I think it was more because of my transformation, the hormones and, all of a sudden, the responsibility I had and the lack of support because I didn't have any family and I didn't know how to reach out for help, like just quickly asking someone can you hold a baby?

00:37:04.413 --> 00:37:04.875
I can shower.

00:37:04.875 --> 00:37:11.088
I didn't have that and I didn't have the courage to actually ask a friend to come over.

00:37:11.088 --> 00:37:17.260
And this home nurse her name was Liz Lotte I think she saved me.

00:37:17.260 --> 00:37:21.775
Like with that midwife, she became my friend, like from my perspective.

00:37:21.775 --> 00:37:23.902
I was looking forward to her visit.

00:37:23.902 --> 00:37:25.869
She was so kind and caring.

00:37:25.869 --> 00:37:29.465
Yes, she was there for the baby, but she was also there for me.

00:37:29.465 --> 00:37:42.268
She came to check on me and she did a screening with me because she said I think, stephanie, you're not well, you need to see if you have depression so that if you have depression, that you can get the help you need.

00:37:42.268 --> 00:37:46.721
And I did have depression, I just didn't know.

00:37:47.342 --> 00:37:53.503
And nobody asks these type of questions that lead to an outcome of yes, you know, all this sounds like depression.

00:37:53.503 --> 00:37:56.335
It's more like how is the baby sleeping?

00:37:56.335 --> 00:37:57.900
How are you holding up?

00:37:57.900 --> 00:38:02.574
These questions are not really reflecting your internal state when you ask a new mom.

00:38:02.574 --> 00:38:04.320
But can you shower?

00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:05.322
Do you eat well?

00:38:05.322 --> 00:38:06.365
Do you cry?

00:38:06.365 --> 00:38:07.570
How often do you cry?

00:38:07.570 --> 00:38:09.155
Can you calm yourself when you cry?

00:38:09.155 --> 00:38:13.309
Do you feel that when your baby cries, that you are getting too distressed?

00:38:13.309 --> 00:38:14.679
Do you call someone?

00:38:14.679 --> 00:38:16.367
Do you isolate yourself?

00:38:16.367 --> 00:38:29.385
All these questions really led to a picture of me understanding it's not healthy how I am and how I lead this new life and I didn't know what new moms do.

00:38:29.385 --> 00:38:38.914
There is no such thing as a blueprint for me, because in my family, my cousins and all that, it was not very we didn't share many of these struggles.

00:38:38.914 --> 00:38:43.695
So you see the new mom, but she looks good and the baby is cute and you go visit and it's all fine.

00:38:43.695 --> 00:38:48.554
So I just didn't have an understanding about it, even though of course I knew about it.

00:38:48.554 --> 00:38:52.001
But when you are in it you cannot make sense of it.

00:38:52.802 --> 00:39:08.164
And she kicked off the whole process four months after delivery for me to get the therapist and even though I had already won for the trauma of birth and to resolve that and it seemed fine, they didn't say well, you know, you're good, we cleared you.

00:39:08.164 --> 00:39:15.824
They rolled up the whole thing again and they gave me support, the support I needed, and it was not a lot of support that I needed, just a little bit.

00:39:15.824 --> 00:39:32.929
And a little bit went a long way because just a few months later I already went back to work and I was so fine then I could leave my child with my husband, I was comfortable leaving him and I was comfortable going back to work and that was just, I know from me.

00:39:32.929 --> 00:39:37.157
I would have not asked for that support, I just wouldn't have.

00:39:37.356 --> 00:39:48.170
I was so embarrassed for not being able to shower, for not being able to eat well, for having to hold my baby 12 hours a day because he wouldn't sleep somewhere else.

00:39:48.170 --> 00:39:52.001
I just couldn't put him down and I thought it's my fault.

00:39:52.001 --> 00:39:54.726
I thought there's something wrong that I did.

00:39:54.726 --> 00:40:04.443
But now, looking back, I see he also had a traumatic birth, this little guy, and everyone around me just said well, don't hold him so much, he gets used to this.

00:40:04.443 --> 00:40:10.018
And then he doesn't sleep, of course, and at night he would sleep so well, he would sleep in his crib.

00:40:10.018 --> 00:40:11.500
He would just wake up to nurse.

00:40:11.500 --> 00:40:14.606
I would put him back and he would continue sleeping.

00:40:14.606 --> 00:40:16.389
And I was not overtired.

00:40:16.389 --> 00:40:32.983
I had really good nights of sleep in the first few months, but the days were difficult and if that whole nurse didn't show up, if I didn't have the mental health support, then I couldn't have been as present for him as I was able then to be and just happier.

00:40:32.983 --> 00:40:36.688
Life is just so much better when you're not depressed.

00:40:36.927 --> 00:40:37.327
Yeah.

00:40:37.748 --> 00:40:45.090
That's just the fact, yeah, and that was really lucky, that was really nice, and they also put me in a mom's group.

00:40:45.090 --> 00:41:03.547
It's also something they have here in Denmark so you're assigned to a group of moms who gave birth around the same time and you exchange contacts and then you meet for coffee, for a walk, for whatever you need, and we're still friends and we could share how hard things are for us and I could see.

00:41:03.547 --> 00:41:09.860
Well, actually, you know, I'm not the only one who struggles with washing her hair in the morning, and it's not the worst thing.

00:41:09.860 --> 00:41:13.128
It doesn't determine whether or not I'm a good mom?

00:41:13.530 --> 00:41:15.554
Yeah, yeah, that's so interesting.

00:41:15.554 --> 00:41:21.369
Do you know what the tool is that they use to screen moms for postpartum depression?

00:41:21.369 --> 00:41:23.554
Like what questions, how they know what to ask?

00:41:24.516 --> 00:41:26.898
It was a I think it was 20 questions.

00:41:26.898 --> 00:41:27.800
I don't know that.

00:41:27.800 --> 00:41:29.762
I don't know the questionnaire.

00:41:29.762 --> 00:41:35.130
It's a governmental approved thing that they use, all the same, the standardized process.

00:41:35.170 --> 00:41:36.695
Yeah, we have.

00:41:36.695 --> 00:41:46.023
We use the Adenberg scale and I've noticed a lot of parents it'll catch some postpartum depression.

00:41:46.023 --> 00:41:57.211
I've noticed it's not necessarily as all encompassing as it should be, because I've been learning a lot about what's called perinatal mood and anxiety disorders.

00:41:57.211 --> 00:42:14.123
I've been trying to focus a lot on that in my podcast because I have some friends that are therapists that are certified in perinatal mental health and I noticed that the Adenberg scale that we use for postpartum depression doesn't bring up intrusive thoughts.

00:42:14.123 --> 00:42:36.431
It doesn't bring up symptoms of postpartum obsessive compulsive disorder or postpartum anxiety, which is different from postpartum depression, and some of the symptoms that you'll see with any of these perinatal mood and anxiety disorders are different from what you would see if you were not in the perinatal space.

00:42:37.215 --> 00:42:53.510
So regular anxiety might show up differently than postpartum anxiety, and I think it's important to have tools that can help moms know that they need to seek mental health and then also have mental health readily available in the US.

00:42:53.510 --> 00:43:06.103
Yeah, and that's the key for everyone, which it's complicated now, even if you have money, sometimes insurance doesn't cover it and it's so expensive rightfully so, because people are trying to maintain their business.

00:43:06.103 --> 00:43:09.128
It's just it could be done so much better.

00:43:09.128 --> 00:43:22.824
So I'm glad that you had the opportunity and the resources and I think that, learning from how people have had those good experiences in other places, I think we could probably try to start doing better here, yeah.

00:43:23.666 --> 00:43:27.818
It's incredible how much can happen just in one year.

00:43:27.818 --> 00:43:29.543
And I got better.

00:43:29.543 --> 00:43:33.597
I got out of it well, I entered the workforce, I was able to have another baby.

00:43:33.597 --> 00:43:35.304
My marriage didn't fall apart.

00:43:35.304 --> 00:43:50.018
Yeah, I'm strong, like mentally strong, and I am resilient because of that, and we didn't have financial worries about any of this Never, and that's such a relief from what I can understand.

00:43:50.425 --> 00:43:57.349
If you need to kind of finance your own treatment, if you kind of need to check, well, can I afford this?

00:43:57.349 --> 00:43:58.815
Do I want to?

00:43:58.815 --> 00:43:59.918
Do I really need this?

00:43:59.918 --> 00:44:02.487
We never had these kind of conversations.

00:44:02.487 --> 00:44:10.853
Whatever you need, stephanie, whatever you need, you get it, because it's important that you are well and the baby is well and your husband is well.

00:44:10.853 --> 00:44:38.956
Like even that extended part of me kind of got the mental health support that he needed without even ever spending any money on anything and we could give back to the community, we could give back to the economy, like we are fully functioning people with two kids and a healthy family, and I'm convinced because we got the help we needed and we didn't have to make those difficult decisions.

00:44:38.956 --> 00:44:40.688
Can we afford this?

00:44:40.688 --> 00:44:42.315
Do we want to afford this?

00:44:42.315 --> 00:44:47.452
What if the baby needs something else and then we don't have the pillow of money anymore.

00:44:47.452 --> 00:44:52.166
What if something else comes up when your car breaks down?

00:44:52.166 --> 00:45:00.208
And I wish that this would be the norm for everyone, because otherwise it's such a burden, such a burden.

00:45:00.568 --> 00:45:04.597
Yeah, so then what does child care look like in Denmark?

00:45:04.885 --> 00:45:12.963
So everyone has guaranteed child care in a public daycare institution as of six months old.

00:45:12.963 --> 00:45:17.231
Wow, but you can stay home on maternity leave up to one year.

00:45:17.231 --> 00:45:26.947
So you can stay home and divide the time of leave between you and your husband or you and your partner, even if it's a same sex marriage or same sex couple.

00:45:27.208 --> 00:45:41.083
You can just stay home up to one year and then everyone has a guaranteed spot in a public institution and you pay really little, like it's so affordable.

00:45:41.083 --> 00:45:42.585
They provide food there.

00:45:42.585 --> 00:45:45.090
It's amazing Like they helped me raise my kids.

00:45:45.090 --> 00:45:48.617
They are really dedicated, attentive.

00:45:48.617 --> 00:45:58.847
It's not without flaws, but because they're humans it's normal and we were super happy with our daycare.

00:45:58.847 --> 00:46:04.063
Our kids stayed there from one to six and now the oldest started school.

00:46:04.063 --> 00:46:27.766
They started school at six years old and it's a very smooth transition because kids here learn how to be kids, how to integrate in a society, and they don't learn how to read and write and sit and know all the rules about academic success, of whatever a parent might be afraid that their kids will not achieve.

00:46:27.766 --> 00:46:44.871
Here it's more about how you climb trees and how you make fire, how you dig up an animal and how you make sure that you know what mushrooms you can eat when you go to school Survival skills that's awesome.

00:46:44.931 --> 00:46:48.056
It's really great because it's so good for our kids' mental health.

00:46:48.056 --> 00:46:57.264
They are free, they are kids and when they enter school they are ready because school is here not the first two years, it's not.

00:46:57.264 --> 00:46:57.768
You know.

00:46:57.768 --> 00:46:59.780
You sit for six hours here.

00:46:59.780 --> 00:47:08.280
It is still very much like you go out and play and you learn how to count and do math and you learn English while you are out.

00:47:08.280 --> 00:47:25.878
People are just integrating learning in a very natural way, and my son even says it's quite boring at school because I thought that we are really going to do the hard math now because I know all these things already and so they really help us here to raise amazing humans.

00:47:25.878 --> 00:47:28.760
For us, for us, it's a blessing.

00:47:29.001 --> 00:47:37.664
Yeah, I'm starting to consider how I could move to Denmark, making it very tempting, but I guess I should stay the course and try to make here a little bit more family friendly.

00:47:38.286 --> 00:47:38.829
They need you.

00:47:38.829 --> 00:47:39.773
They need you, yeah, kelly.

00:47:40.965 --> 00:47:43.804
I'm just like thinking about all the things I could have done if I'd had that support.

00:47:43.804 --> 00:47:44.887
That'd be amazing.

00:47:44.887 --> 00:47:53.155
So I know in certain countries they have support where they automatically put you into see a pelvic floor specialist.

00:47:53.155 --> 00:47:55.184
Is that something that they do in Denmark as well?

00:47:55.184 --> 00:47:56.547
No, they don't.

00:47:56.547 --> 00:47:58.070
It's an interesting thing.

00:47:58.090 --> 00:47:59.353
There's a big gap.

00:47:59.835 --> 00:48:05.833
I have a friend who is a pelvic floor specialist and she is booked.

00:48:05.833 --> 00:48:13.610
So many need her support because once you're cleared from your GP, you're out of the system.

00:48:13.610 --> 00:48:16.856
That's camps for mothers and the body.

00:48:16.856 --> 00:48:32.565
So they say, well, it all looks good, you're healed, green light for being intimate with your partner again, and if you don't want to become pregnant pretty soon, then this is what you need to do.

00:48:32.565 --> 00:48:36.291
Then they just give you a list of contraception, but that's it.

00:48:36.291 --> 00:48:46.235
So there is unfortunately a big gap on providing care for coming back to a good state, and that's not a good thing.

00:48:46.255 --> 00:48:50.771
Yeah, yeah, that's how it is here as well.

00:48:50.771 --> 00:49:09.489
I think there's a lot of challenge and I don't think there are many mothers that know what to look out for, because there's so many different signs and symptoms of pelvic floor dysfunction that aren't just the obvious ones, because once you get the real obvious one, something has gone pretty wrong, something that I ask all moms.

00:49:09.489 --> 00:49:16.972
There's two things that I ask moms, and I think it's always different with people that have had natural deliveries.

00:49:16.972 --> 00:49:22.885
So the first thing, you kind of answered but what was it?

00:49:22.885 --> 00:49:26.813
That major brain understand how to push the baby out.

00:49:26.813 --> 00:49:30.831
Was there something like was it difficult at first and then you kind of got the hang of it?

00:49:30.831 --> 00:49:35.632
Or was it something that, because you were having a natural delivery, you could feel everything?

00:49:35.632 --> 00:49:38.891
It all felt natural and you just went with what your body was telling you?

00:49:39.614 --> 00:49:56.173
I was very surprised how strong the urge is to push, Like now, when I think that there are doctors or midwives telling birthing people to wall the baby in because we don't have time to help you.

00:49:56.173 --> 00:50:02.670
I don't know how that could work, Because I felt in the moment that's it, the baby's coming.

00:50:02.670 --> 00:50:05.155
I didn't feel I have control anymore.

00:50:05.155 --> 00:50:12.603
It was more like how do I channel all the energy that I need and how strong do I need to push?

00:50:12.603 --> 00:50:16.152
For me it was more the questions well, what do I need to do?

00:50:16.152 --> 00:50:22.277
When she said, you don't have to actually do much, you just follow the urge and the instinct and that was it.

00:50:22.277 --> 00:50:24.144
So I didn't overthink too much.

00:50:24.144 --> 00:50:29.117
But I was quite surprised how intense and different it was from the contractions before.

00:50:29.646 --> 00:50:31.454
And then can feel a little bit scary.

00:50:31.454 --> 00:50:32.800
That's different.

00:50:32.800 --> 00:50:33.565
What's going on now?

00:50:34.246 --> 00:50:39.204
Yeah, I have big feelings about people telling moms not to deliver their babies.

00:50:39.847 --> 00:50:41.936
I mean, that's an impossible thing to ask.

00:50:41.936 --> 00:50:43.664
It's terrible, it's the.

00:50:44.186 --> 00:50:47.744
I agree, yeah, I Babies are going to come out, and that's a natural thing.

00:50:47.846 --> 00:50:48.271
Exactly.

00:50:48.293 --> 00:50:50.550
Exactly I tell moms.

00:50:50.550 --> 00:50:54.224
I just say if the baby comes out, the baby's going to come out.

00:50:54.224 --> 00:50:54.425
You know.

00:50:54.425 --> 00:50:59.436
As long as you're in the bed and there's a place for the baby to land, it's fine.

00:50:59.436 --> 00:51:02.563
And if I'm not in the room, a lot of people are worried.

00:51:02.563 --> 00:51:03.969
They're like what if you're not here?

00:51:03.969 --> 00:51:09.835
Call me If I'm with another patient at that time and I don't know that you're ready to deliver.

00:51:09.835 --> 00:51:17.016
I mean, most of the time that doesn't happen, but sometimes it does, especially with a really good epidural and a mom that's had multiple babies.

00:51:17.016 --> 00:51:20.985
It can happen where the baby you look up and the baby's suddenly off the monitor.

00:51:21.184 --> 00:51:27.594
You go on and readjust and you're like wait a minute, there's a baby here, you know, and we call on the team to help to make sure that the baby's okay.

00:51:27.594 --> 00:51:31.155
But it happens and it doesn't have to be terrifying.

00:51:31.155 --> 00:51:37.724
And you know we call the doctor or midwife when the baby is crowning to actually deliver.

00:51:37.724 --> 00:51:38.748
That's the protocol.

00:51:39.068 --> 00:51:40.914
If they don't make it not the end of the world.

00:51:40.914 --> 00:51:48.284
I have hands and then when they get there and like here, take over, there's a placenta that needs to come out.

00:51:48.284 --> 00:51:55.853
There's probably some things that you need to repair down there that I'm not qualified to do, but the baby coming out is not something that you really need to.

00:51:55.853 --> 00:52:02.126
I mean, unless it gets stuck, it's not a whole lot that needs to be, and also we're trained on the procedures If it gets stuck.

00:52:02.126 --> 00:52:11.016
So, and hopefully by then everybody's come to help, so it doesn't have to be terrifying for the baby to just move into this world.

00:52:12.085 --> 00:52:18.777
And I feel if a woman holds it back it's so much more painful, which just increases the fear.

00:52:18.777 --> 00:52:23.056
And then you know, you're kind of in that cycle of, of course it hurts so much.

00:52:23.056 --> 00:52:27.675
I'm just trying to hold it in, which was so painful.

00:52:28.286 --> 00:52:34.672
And a stress response and trauma and so much that happens just because you're not letting nature take its course.

00:52:34.672 --> 00:52:41.554
The other thing that I ask everybody is if you could go back to prior to your birth experience and talk to yourself.

00:52:41.554 --> 00:52:43.577
What would you want to tell yourself?

00:52:43.965 --> 00:52:44.907
That's a nice question.

00:52:44.907 --> 00:52:55.476
I think I would tell myself that the postpartum period, especially the first six months, I'm not liking the movies Sometimes.

00:52:55.476 --> 00:53:08.670
I mean, I know that birth is not like in the movies and I knew that it's not like your water breaks While you're standing in the kitchen and you have this huge pond underneath you and then you go to the hospital and the baby's here.

00:53:08.670 --> 00:53:17.018
I knew that, but I didn't know that about the postpartum period, I thought it's going to be this pink cloud that I'm sitting on.

00:53:17.726 --> 00:53:34.594
And it's perfect and it's easy and it's so natural, and my baby and me will be in the perfect symbiosis and I will be this mom that prepares homemade meals, and it was such an unrealistic expectation of what I thought it was going to be.

00:53:35.117 --> 00:53:40.496
I wish I could go back and tell myself, however, this is going to be, it's just fine, it's just right.

00:53:40.496 --> 00:53:50.445
You don't need to do anything, you don't have to look anything particular and your child doesn't have to do anything particular.

00:53:50.445 --> 00:53:59.237
All you have to do is be there in the moment and present and be a bit more courageous of feeling what you're feeling, because that was difficult for me.

00:53:59.577 --> 00:54:01.628
Yeah, I think all moms need to hear that.

00:54:01.628 --> 00:54:02.713
That's really good.

00:54:02.713 --> 00:54:06.128
Well, Stephanie, is there anything that we didn't cover that you wanted to talk about?

00:54:06.931 --> 00:54:07.454
Not really.

00:54:07.454 --> 00:54:11.327
I think it was a really nice and comprehensive conversation about my experience.

00:54:11.367 --> 00:54:14.797
Yeah, I'm really excited for this episode to air.

00:54:14.797 --> 00:54:21.476
I think a lot of moms have to hear about your experience I think that would be really helpful and providers as well.

00:54:21.476 --> 00:54:23.307
I think we can all do better.

00:54:23.449 --> 00:54:30.329
I'm often holding back with telling my story because I feel it was, it has this traumatic side to it.

00:54:30.329 --> 00:54:40.519
But I'd like that you, that you gave me this opportunity to tell my story and still being able to show people that it can be positive.

00:54:40.760 --> 00:54:49.130
Yeah, and I think I really want to turn that narrative around and help moms kind of take back their birth stories and be able to really honor them.

00:54:49.170 --> 00:54:50.273
Yeah, exactly.

00:54:51.036 --> 00:54:52.440
Well, Stephanie, thank you so much.

00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:56.710
It's been an absolute pleasure hearing your birth stories and hearing your perspective.