Feb. 24, 2025

The Healing Power of Touch: Motherhood, Advocacy & Infant Massage with Khyati Desai-Seltzer

The Healing Power of Touch: Motherhood, Advocacy & Infant Massage with Khyati Desai-Seltzer
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Season 3

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What if the journey from womanhood to motherhood offered more transformation than you ever imagined? Join us in a heartwarming episode with Khyati Desai-Seltzer, a mompreneur with a passion for social impact, as she recounts how her own birth stories, including an unexpected cesarean delivery, propelled her into a world of empowerment and community support for new parents. Dive into Khyati's personal experiences with the invaluable support of a doula, as she shares the challenges and triumphs of the fourth trimester. Her transformative path reshaped not only her personal life but also her professional endeavors, spotlighting the importance of advocacy and nurturing environments for mothers.

Uncover the powerful benefits of baby massage, a practice Kiaty champions through her venture, Vyana Infant Massage. This episode offers a glimpse into the immediate and long-term advantages of fostering a touch-positive atmosphere, teaching consent, and nurturing healthy touch within families. From improved sleep for infants to stronger parent-child bonds and mental health support, Khyati’s insights reveal how touch can transform emotional well-being and family dynamics. We also explore the broader societal impact of nurturing touch, emphasizing how it contributes to healthier relationships and emotional security from an early age.

Our conversation with Khyati doesn’t stop with individual practices; it extends into the broader need for community support. Drawing inspiration from global postpartum customs, we explore modern solutions that can help new mothers thrive, such as virtual villages and shared knowledge platforms. Highlighting the significance of self-advocacy and education in healthcare, we champion the idea of seasoned mothers mentoring newcomers, ensuring that no parent feels alone in their journey. This episode is an inspiring call to action, encouraging society to support new moms and celebrate the power of community, touch, and transformation in motherhood.

Connect with Khyati at vyanainfantmassage.com

Join the Bump & Beyond Online Community for moms & moms-to-be!

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Medical Disclaimer:
This podcast is intended as a safe space for women to share their birth experiences. It is not intended to provide medical advice. Each woman’s medical course of action is individual and may not appropriately transfer to another similar situation. Please speak to your medical provider before making any medical decisions. Additionally, it is important to keep in mind that evidence based practice evolves as our knowledge of science improves. To the best of my ability I will attempt to present the most current ACOG and AWHONN recommendations at the time the podcast is recorded, but that may not necessarily reflect the best practices at the time the podcast is heard. Additionally, guests sharing their stories have the right to autonomy in their medical decisions, and may share their choice to go against current practice recommendations. I intend to hold space for people to share their decisions. I will attempt to share the current recommendations so that my audience is informed, but it is up to each individual to choose what is best for them.

Chapters

00:29 - Motherhood, Birthing, and Transformation

11:45 - The Power of Baby Massage

25:16 - Building a Supportive Community for Mothers

36:01 - Empowering Mothers for Healthy Parenting

51:39 - Navigating Motherhood

57:28 - Hospital Birth Practices and Update"title"

01:12:03 - Advocating for Yourself in Healthcare

01:16:36 - Empowering Mothers Through Advocacy and Education

01:21:08 - Healthy Digestion in Babies

Transcript
WEBVTT

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Hello, Today I have with me Kiaty Desai-Seltzer.

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Kiaty is a mompreneur focused on social impact and transformational change through both of her businesses.

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As the owner of Vianna Infant Massage LLC, she teaches parents the art and science of massaging their babies, an ancient indigenous practice for short-term and long-term benefits, addressing sleep, gas, colic reflux, immunity, bonding, congestion, growth and so much more.

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Through her consulting, practice, engagement and impact consulting.

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She works on authentic resident engagement in affordable and mixed-income housing to create thriving communities.

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Kathy graduated from LSU with a bachelor's in sociology and international studies and from GMU with a master's in public administration in nonprofit management.

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Kathy lives in Arlington, Virginia, with her husband and two daughters.

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She enjoys yoga, meditation, travel, dancing and exploring new places in her free time.

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Kathy, welcome and thank you so much for joining me.

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I'm glad that we could finally do this.

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Yes, thank you Kelly, it's my pleasure.

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Well, I'm excited to hear your birth stories.

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I purposely wait until the podcast so that I can ask all the questions, so I'm learning this at the same time that everybody else is.

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So I'm excited to hear your birth stories and how that's impacted your career, because it sounds like you've done a lot of different things in your professional life.

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Absolutely.

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Thank you so much, kelly.

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So, like every other mom on this planet, the stories of their baby's birth have transformed them, and for many times, from being, you know, a woman to a mother, like the biggest change of your life.

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And so, men, it comes from being a woman to a mother the biggest change of your life and so my story is no different.

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When I was pregnant with my daughter in 2015, I had been in the natural holistic world for a few years but didn't know all the things that I know today in between the births of both my girls.

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But I knew at the time I either wanted to birth at home, because I had a friend who had births at home, she had a doula.

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I just resonated with all of that and I wanted a similar story.

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My husband had some concerns around birthing at home, and so we.

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Our compromise was working with the midw for a program at George Washington University, which actually is pretty hard to get into, and so I was finally accepted at GW with midwives and had a pretty good pregnancy for the most part.

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You know typical things like heartburn and all that but around 32 weeks, during the checkup, they found that my baby was breech and so, of course, as a part-time mom, all of this is new to you, to me and so I my doula recommended a chiropractor who is well known in this area, and so I started working with him.

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I went back to my acupuncturist because I heard about moxibustion.

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I did spitting babies close to maybe you know, 30 something weeks around Thanksgiving we decided to do the ECV, which is the physical manipulation of baby in utero.

00:03:14.342 --> 00:03:16.586
So they try, attempt to turn baby.

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For those of you who are not familiar and have reached presentation Now, the truth is, if you are birthing at home, you work with the midwives.

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They're often trained in turning baby.

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Sometimes baby will turn, but as baby gets bigger and space narrows, it's harder for baby to turn and there's usually a reason why they're in that position.

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But midwives are often trained to turn them either during pregnancy or even during labor.

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But in the hospital, the positions that it requires you to be in, which is such as all fours, which can lend itself to opening up that pelvic and allowing them space you can't do that in the hospital for liability reasons.

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And so, after trying all of the things, even laying upside down on the ironing board on the sofa for weeks, you know I did everything I knew at the time, baby still wouldn't turn, and so I got to about 40 weeks, 41 weeks, and I had to be transferred to the OBs, the OBGYN group, and had to have a scheduled C-section.

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So I had her at 42 weeks, had a scheduled C-section and, thanks to having a doula, while 68% of women were for having a traumatic birth, having a doula helped me prevent a traumatic birth.

00:04:32.730 --> 00:05:03.620
So, while it wasn't the birth that I wanted and in fact having a cesarean I think has resulted in things in my daughter that I maybe would not have been there had she been a vaginal it wasn't traumatic and so I credit her, my doula, to that and incorporating some things that they call gentle cesarean so not having my hands tied down so that I could hold my baby, or letting my husband announce the sex of the baby, or having a clear curtain, immediate skin to skin, you know, delaying cord clamping.

00:05:03.620 --> 00:05:05.504
Those things that are important.

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I was, for the most part, was able to get all of them, except one which I think might have made a difference, and that was the vaginal sweep, and so, fortunately, I had, you know, delivery that I could have, and postpartum, my mom was here just to be with me, which is very common culturally, and my husband was able to have a little bit of time off, so I had some support and even still it was.

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I mean, the fourth trimester rocks your world, right.

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So even for those of us who feel like we got it or we're calm, or we're centered, or we're under control, you are not in control, and the more type A you are, the harder the fourth trimester will be.

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And everything is hard, right, your body has changed.

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You were different.

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Everything is hard.

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Breastfeeding is hard, figuring how to use a pump is hard, figuring how to do the baby wearing, everything is difficult, and so it really challenges you and breaks you open in ways that are unimaginable and really people can't prepare you for.

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But as a result of my two experiences and working with so many hundreds of families in the last six years, I say you know, prepare for the fourth trimester, prepare for it.

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Like it is, it is the most important thing, because the birth is important.

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How babies are born does matter and no one should tell you otherwise.

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But most people stop there.

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They're not thinking about how am I going to eat healthy food, not frozen or take out how am I going to get movement?

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Who's going to help me with pelvic floor therapy?

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Who's going to teach me how to massage my baby?

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Those things we don't think about.

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And so if you are listening and you're pregnant and you still have a baby shower or you still have a registry to do, make sure you include services, not things, but services, because those are going to be what makes a difference in your fourth trimester.

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They may not use the beautiful crib, they may not like the swing that you got.

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All of those things you can purchase secondhand, you can borrow it, but you really need services to help you and baby.

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And if you're able to have a healthy fourth trimester, that will impact baby's first 40 years.

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And in my culture, in the Latin culture, la cuarentena, the first 40 days are really critical.

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So prioritize yourself, self-care, make sure there's a community around you All of this is easier said than done birthing in America but make sure that you are cared for.

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And so, having that first birth experience and understanding what I could have done differently, you know because what happened in that first year?

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We learned that my daughter had somehow developed food allergies things that we could talk about in another time, but the vaginal membrane sweep, which I had requested, which they had denied, maybe could have made a difference in giving her the healthy bacteria exposure that she didn't get as a result of the cesarean Fast forward two years into her life.

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I was, you know, I left.

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I had about three and a half four months of maternity leave, which, compared to others, was great.

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It was still very hard to leave.

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I still don't think you should have to leave your child that early and we should get more maternity care, postpartum support, like other countries, to make sure that our kids are healthy and that we are healed and recovered.

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So I did go back to work at four months.

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I did cry.

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Every Sunday I'd come in the room, my husband's like oh, it must be Sunday Leaving her.

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It was very challenging.

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She was the first one in my family that had to go to daycare because my mom was there to care for my sister's kids and so it was hard for everybody and my goal was to just get her to the point where she was on solids and she was crawling and so we had a natty for a few months and then we put her in a home daycare, which turned out to be really great.

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So fast forward to when she turned two years old.

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I was still in this position.

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I was a director of resident engagement at a nonprofit affordable housing organization and I had joined and I had done really meaningful things.

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I thought to make a difference, but then it seemed like most of my days were spent on, you know, office, politics and figuring out how to manage that, and not the more important work, right of helping transform people's lives by introducing capability and self-agency.

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And so there was one particular day.

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You know we're rushing from work to daycare and daycare to work all the time, and so I was rushing.

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For me, my commute was an hour and a half, so I was taking two trains and a bus from work just to home.

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And so I got to the daycare just before it closed like, yes, I got here in time, not realizing then your next job, remembering that my next job started, which was being a mother.

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And I remember being in the daycare, happy that I got there in time, but not seeing my child.

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She was right there, but she was almost a blur.

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And that's when I realized that I was just so stressed out, I had become an empty shell of myself and the work that I was doing that I thought was meaningful was no longer meaningful.

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So was it worth leaving my daughter for something that was no longer making a difference in the world?

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So I decided to leave that position and thought that I would go on to my next nonprofit job.

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But in that time, in the three months I took off to figure out what was next, I read an article in a magazine about baby massage, and my mom had been massaging my baby since she was there.

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All my nieces and nephews were massaging me and my sisters were massaged.

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So massage has been part of my family and it's a part of my culture.

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So in India, where I'm from, a midwife comes to the home, massages mom and baby for three months, because they really see that massage is highly effective.

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But you and your baby have been through a journey physical journey, emotional journey and massage can help so many things which we could talk about.

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So then it's like well, this sounds really great.

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I wonder if moms in America know about it.

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And even to this day, six years later, usually about a third of people have heard about baby massage.

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Most people have not heard about it or think it's something that's sort of a nice to do.

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It's a luxury practice which, to be honest, even I thought that way.

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Oh yeah, that's something nice we do in our culture.

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I didn't know until I went through the training that there's so much science and evidence behind it that it can really be life-changing.

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And so I Googled, went to Google as we do like baby massage, and there was a training coming up.

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So my husband encouraged me to take it and even at that time I thought this was something I would do on the side.

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But the community development work I was doing also kind of became a consulting opportunity.

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So I said, well, let me try this out.

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You know, I never planned to be an entrepreneur, but in motherhood we we go through so much and there are so many moments of pain that most of the entrepreneurs I know have started their businesses as a result of that pain.

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So out of that pain comes this beautiful product, which is intended to make the journey easier for the moms to come.

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So I want moms that don't know about it, who are still not pregnant or thinking about pregnancy or in their 20s, to know that I should massage my baby.

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That's a non-negotiable.

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And similarly my partners who I've worked with, who are in lactation because they had breastfeeding challenges, or who are sleep consultants because their baby didn't sleep like.

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All of this came from a pain point, which is really beautiful, right.

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So we want better than we had and we don't want others to suffer like we did.

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And so I'd started Beyond Infant Massage and this was six years ago and in the second year I was getting more requests from other places.

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So I created a digital course that moms could download on demand to view as they could, based on their time.

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But the benefits have been so incredible and so life changing.

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But the benefits have been so incredible and so life-changing.

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So, in the short term, baby massage helps with improved sleep, which we all need, especially that first year without having a village to support us.

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Reduced gas colic.

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Improved immunity, because it increases white blood cells that are produced.

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It helps the breastfeeding relationships.

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It helps bonding.

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You know most of us will suffer with postpartum depression and anxiety, which is very common.

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It can help with that Congestion brain, you know, growth just so many benefits, short-term and long-term.

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And they could go on about how you should never stop massaging your baby.

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My eight and four-year-olds still get massaged because there are so many benefits to it, and so I have really become even more invested and passionate about the power of baby massage when I see what it does for our families, when I see that they are so excited we just had a client this morning whose baby was suffering with colic she's like, oh my God, day two.

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And I was like this is awesome and it really improves our lives.

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And so when we are in the thick of it we're in the fourth trimester we're just trying to sleep, to try to get baby to stop crying.

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It's incredibly beneficial.

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And then when we're out of that, it helps with that ongoing bonding, with growing pains, with self-regulation, with understanding what is loving church versus not loving church, because we ask baby permission before we massage them.

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Can mama massage you?

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So you're giving them the ability to consent, right?

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When my daughter was two, when I was going through the training, I was like, well, I haven't massaged you since you're a baby, let's do this.

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And she's like, no, she's just just a strong will today.

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But first I was like, well, this is good for you.

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I'm your mom, I know it's good for you.

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And then I had to really accept that it's her body right, even as her mother, she has say over who touches it and when and how.

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That didn't last long, right, she started massaging her baby dolls and then asking me for a massage, and to this day she and her sister asked me, but in that moment I had to respect her autonomy.

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And so, you know, usually they will ask me for a massage or I'll ask them do you want a massage?

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But it really sets them up to understanding relationships.

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We talk a lot about how America is considered touch deprived, and this is true even pre COVID, right, the client I had this morning, her husband, is British and so he's very he's very like, just nervous about touch, and that's okay because we all have a touch history.

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But there is a huge detriment to our health our physical, physiological, emotional health when we are not touched.

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And so what they found in studies is that where there is less touch, there's more violence.

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And unfortunately we see that in our communities in America every day.

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Right, we're struggling with things all the time.

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They study children on playgrounds in France versus Italy.

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They saw how kids touch each other in meaningful, loving ways in those countries versus in America.

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And so when we are not touched which is physiologically, as a human, the most essential sense that we have, we can live without any other sense.

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But touch is one that we cannot survive without, and when we neglect that and we undermine and undervalue that, there is a consequence to our health and our feelings of safety and security.

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So our children need to hear I love you, but even more so they need to feel that we love them.

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It's similar to a business handshake or the flight attendant or waitress that gets a better tip because she's been more physically interactive, and so we've tended to either say over-sexualize things or say no touch.

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So the opposite of predatory touch is not no touch, the opposite is loving touch.

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So we're really setting up our kids like.

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This is what loving touch looks like in the event that you are in a relationship or you know, oftentimes our teens and tweens subconsciously feel like I need touch and they seek that out in relationships.

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Right, I need to be hugged, I need a cuddle, but if you're getting that in the home, then you won't feel as much of a need that I have to be in a relationship.

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Furthermore, when they get to being in their own relationships and marriages, they know how to model loving touch.

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If fathers are engaged in massage, that's so great for a father to say this is what loving touch looks like.

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For a young girl to say, my father would massage my arm after a soccer practice, or you know and you do it in a context, right.

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So with babies, a cute baby in a diaper on the floor is very normal, right?

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Obviously you wouldn't do that with a tween.

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But they're coming home from dance or from soccer and you're saying hey, you seem like you've had a rough day, do you want a foot massage?

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You from soccer in there and you're saying, hey, you seem like you've had a rough day, do you want a foot massage?

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It can go a really long way.

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So not only do they feel a sense of safety and security, do they feel love, but they're also understanding hey, this is what loving touch looks like, and I'm getting it in the home, and so having partners involved is also incredibly powerful.

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My husband is a mental health clinician, so he works a lot with people with addiction and trauma, and everything goes back to this early zero to seven years.

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Right, it's all about attachment, and so when we don't have that healthy attachment, we see behaviors, sometimes immediately and sometimes later on in life.

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And so in these six years, well, my second daughter is now four when I realized I've learned so much after the first and then starting this business, partnering with so many wonderful organizations and providers such as yourself.

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I've learned so much more about birth, pregnancy, postpartum, and realized how much we are lacking in America in caring for mom after baby.

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Right, acoc says it's like wrapper to candy.

00:18:46.643 --> 00:18:50.292
So once mom has her baby, we toss her aside like we toss a wrapper aside.

00:18:50.292 --> 00:18:56.443
You know, the baby shower is about the baby, everything is about the baby, and then we have some of the worst outcomes.

00:18:56.443 --> 00:19:01.363
Right, we have a high maternal mortality, high infant mortality, yet so much money in America.

00:19:01.363 --> 00:19:02.365
So why is that?

00:19:02.365 --> 00:19:09.508
And there are reasons for interventions and other things, but we are not caring for our moms in postpartum.

00:19:09.567 --> 00:19:16.412
So, learning all of this with my second baby, I was like I'm going to do things even more differently than I did with my first.

00:19:16.412 --> 00:19:22.167
It happened to be COVID and I was like I'm having her at home and there was no argument about it.

00:19:22.167 --> 00:19:34.701
So in January 2021, I had her at home, so she was a VBAC and I had a wonderful midwife the same doula but the midwife had to approve me to be a candidate to be a VBAC, right.

00:19:34.701 --> 00:19:36.205
So they have to look at the incision.

00:19:36.205 --> 00:19:38.352
How many years have since passed?

00:19:38.352 --> 00:19:44.203
And since there are five years between the two of them and everything checked out, I was approved as a candidate.

00:19:44.243 --> 00:19:54.210
So what was also really great is that she came to my home, which was great during a pandemic, but I also had a four-year-old at home, so how would I leave her for all my doctor's appointments?

00:19:54.210 --> 00:20:02.288
So it was a really nice service to have her come to the house Having the gestational diabetes exam with real food.

00:20:02.288 --> 00:20:05.708
Another option I didn't know was possible was like, also life-changing.

00:20:05.708 --> 00:20:08.008
Like none of that yucky drink, I had a real meal.

00:20:08.008 --> 00:20:13.364
She tested me Having my daughter there to also experience my journey.

00:20:13.443 --> 00:20:21.607
But I also had exposed her to birth videos because I didn't want her to be there and be scared and what's happening with mommy, like, is she okay?

00:20:21.607 --> 00:20:25.488
And so she became as addicted as I am to birth videos.

00:20:25.488 --> 00:20:31.722
I love to watch birth videos, so she loves it and she said when I grow up I want to do the just one part of what the midwife does, you know.

00:20:31.722 --> 00:20:46.280
But it really helped her to see as well, like about birth can be a beautiful physiological experience and not a scary, traumatic experience and so with my second I had her at home, I had lined up the providers I needed.

00:20:46.280 --> 00:20:48.067
I knew I needed pelvic floor therapy.

00:20:48.067 --> 00:20:49.915
I knew I needed support with sleep.

00:20:49.915 --> 00:20:52.884
I knew I needed a lactation consultant.

00:20:52.884 --> 00:21:04.603
My mom was again here for a few months and I think also it being a pandemic and us being able to sort of slow down and just focus on our family, which is another thing I recommend to my clients.

00:21:04.702 --> 00:21:14.392
Culturally and in many families, the first three months you won't have any visitors and if it's just you at home, that can be completely isolating and could make matters worse.

00:21:14.392 --> 00:21:29.107
But if you have your mom or aunt coming with you or your husband's there, it would be really incredible for you to just say, like we will see you at month three or in 60 days or whatever you decide, Because after that you're going to open the baby up to the world.

00:21:29.107 --> 00:21:31.804
Everyone will be able to see them and it will be wonderful.

00:21:31.804 --> 00:21:35.441
But you will never get that time back where it's just you and your child.

00:21:35.441 --> 00:21:42.644
You're getting a sense of who your baby is, you're recovering, you're not hosting, and in order to do that you need a village to help care for you.

00:21:42.644 --> 00:21:56.411
You need people to say we're going to make warm nourishing foods like no, smoothies and salads, right, like you've got all this empty space in your belly that needs to be replenished with warm nourishing foods and Chinese medicine, indian Ayurveda.

00:21:56.411 --> 00:21:59.885
They'll all say, like, you need warm nourishing foods to replenish.

00:22:05.220 --> 00:22:12.564
Another practice that I didn't know about even with with my second, so if I ever had a third which I'm not planning on, I would definitely do this which is called belly binding another wonderful eastern practice.

00:22:12.564 --> 00:22:14.146
My instructor is Malay.

00:22:14.146 --> 00:22:29.111
It's a Malaysian rooted in Malaysian culture, where they come so, like in India where someone comes and cares for you, in Malaysia somebody comes and prepares herbal baths for you, teas, nourishing foods, and they put a bind on you.

00:22:29.111 --> 00:22:38.113
So I know when I was in the hospital they gave this sort of Velcro bind that was uncomfortable and it's plastic and it sucked it's the worst.

00:22:38.333 --> 00:22:41.989
It's the worst, but this bind is made out of cloth.

00:22:41.989 --> 00:22:43.346
It fits like a corset.

00:22:43.346 --> 00:22:53.432
She's made it to where you can tie it yourself and the idea is to restore your body, putting the organs back into place, putting the ribcage back into place, helping you become like this.

00:22:53.432 --> 00:22:58.972
You know your smaller size, not that there's any hurry to get to pre-baby size Like it took you 40 weeks For stability.

00:22:58.972 --> 00:23:08.825
For stability, pelvic floor Breastfeeding helps, because I know I had terrible pains while breastfeeding this would have helped me not to do the punching thing.

00:23:08.865 --> 00:23:17.191
And even today my younger one is four I'm still struggling with pelvic floor, things right, and I did the pelvic floor therapy.

00:23:17.191 --> 00:23:21.711
But maybe having done the belly binding in that first three months could have made a difference.

00:23:21.711 --> 00:23:22.981
And so we don't know.

00:23:22.981 --> 00:23:26.328
Until we experience it we think we'll be fine.

00:23:26.328 --> 00:23:29.702
I don't need this person, I don't need this service, but you just don't know.

00:23:29.702 --> 00:23:31.185
And every experience is different.

00:23:31.185 --> 00:23:35.083
And so, vianna, infant Massage was inspired by my daughters.

00:23:35.083 --> 00:23:44.269
They are the reason I do it, because I see even today, as old as they are, how much massage benefits them and I want that for every family.

00:23:44.869 --> 00:23:58.801
And if attachment or lack of attachment is the root of so many issues in American society, and I also, truly believe, lack of community, just coming up, coming from India on a trip, community is so integral to their existence.

00:23:58.801 --> 00:24:14.292
So, like, my girls were watched by strangers that, you know, even on the plane, like a complete, there was a female on one side, a male on the other side, who didn't know each other, and both of them cared for my kids, both my girls, without us asking, without us, you know, they just cared for them.

00:24:14.292 --> 00:24:16.585
They, like, fed them their their meals.

00:24:16.585 --> 00:24:18.851
They told them their eyes were too close to the TV.

00:24:18.851 --> 00:24:48.105
You know, yeah, get involved On a 15 hour flight, like I really appreciated that we weren't alone with these.

00:24:48.105 --> 00:24:48.547
You know, get involved.

00:24:48.547 --> 00:24:52.018
All of that is rooted in a lack of community, and we're so isolated and we're so independent here for better and worse that we really are struggling, and moms are struggling.

00:24:52.018 --> 00:25:04.864
We are raising children on our own, without the support of mothers and aunts and grandmothers, the people that will tell us this is how you breastfeed, this is how you massage, and so we have to create our own villages, and sometimes we have to pay for those villages.

00:25:05.263 --> 00:25:17.900
It's better than not having any support at all, and so I do believe that a lot of the things that we're struggling with here have solutions, and a lot of them are being practiced around the world.

00:25:17.900 --> 00:25:25.121
So we know, in korea, for example, they have these postpartum care centers which are popping up around america, but they're incredibly expensive.

00:25:25.121 --> 00:25:28.862
In China, there's a golden sitting month for one month.

00:25:28.862 --> 00:25:31.242
Nobody does any.

00:25:31.242 --> 00:25:35.224
When you have a baby, you care for your baby and your community cares for other kids.

00:25:35.224 --> 00:25:38.086
They do the cooking, they do the cleaning, right?

00:25:38.086 --> 00:25:39.486
You're not expected to do it all.

00:25:39.486 --> 00:25:52.311
So having moms come here and birth babies, go back to work, cook clean pay bills, run businesses is a recipe for disaster and it's affecting our families, and it's affecting them short term and long term.

00:25:52.311 --> 00:26:01.875
But if we look to these practices infant massage, belly binding, the sitting months all of these things can help lower our rates of postpartum depression.

00:26:01.934 --> 00:26:09.498
Anxiety increases our chances of survival and thriving not just surviving in fourth trimester, but thriving like.

00:26:09.498 --> 00:26:18.406
The answers are there, but we have to figure out how we can fit them into our society, into our way of life, which is not easy.

00:26:18.406 --> 00:26:21.681
And moms themselves look around and say, well, she's doing it or they're doing it, I can do it.

00:26:21.681 --> 00:26:23.526
I can do it without any help.

00:26:23.526 --> 00:26:25.980
I can survive without sleep, you know.

00:26:25.980 --> 00:26:31.201
But we can't like we need help and those people that you see are doing it are not thriving.

00:26:31.201 --> 00:26:32.525
We're all struggling.

00:26:32.525 --> 00:26:33.267
They're struggling.

00:26:33.267 --> 00:26:35.071
We're just masking the struggle.

00:26:35.071 --> 00:26:36.703
Are they're masking it right?

00:26:36.703 --> 00:26:37.005
Definitely.

00:26:37.005 --> 00:26:39.230
Don't rely on social media for your gauge.

00:26:39.230 --> 00:26:41.804
Like we, there's no shame in asking for help.

00:26:41.804 --> 00:26:48.484
We definitely need people around us to care for us so that we can better care for our kids, because we can't do both.

00:26:49.207 --> 00:26:50.210
Yeah, absolutely.

00:26:50.210 --> 00:26:51.826
There was so much that you said.

00:26:51.826 --> 00:26:54.429
I started taking notes because I didn't want to interrupt your flow.

00:26:54.429 --> 00:26:57.686
You were talking about the service registry.

00:26:57.686 --> 00:27:04.173
Yes, that is so important and not something that was an option for me when I had my kids.

00:27:04.173 --> 00:27:08.511
It didn't exist, it was just the things registry right, right, wasn't important.

00:27:08.551 --> 00:27:10.637
My gosh, I could have paid for my doula.

00:27:10.637 --> 00:27:12.933
I could have paid for breastfeeding support.

00:27:12.933 --> 00:27:15.529
There was so much that I could have paid for that, was it?

00:27:15.529 --> 00:27:17.395
Ultimately like a lot of this stuff.

00:27:17.395 --> 00:27:24.221
Like you're right, my daughter didn't like the swing, so that was a waste of money to get a brand new swing because I was paranoid about germs.

00:27:24.221 --> 00:27:26.556
Yeah, that's exactly right.

00:27:26.556 --> 00:27:27.351
That doesn't, you know?

00:27:27.351 --> 00:27:28.492
Like make it make sense.

00:27:28.492 --> 00:27:33.402
I mean, there's ways to check things out and make sure that it's not going to be a hazard, that it's not.

00:27:33.402 --> 00:27:34.805
Yeah, exactly, also, there's.

00:27:34.805 --> 00:27:36.267
You can rent things.

00:27:36.267 --> 00:27:38.131
Yes, that's available now.

00:27:38.131 --> 00:27:41.679
Like companies Yep, there are companies that rent baby items.

00:27:41.679 --> 00:27:48.382
It's amazing what you have access to and, like you were saying, like, sometimes you have to pay for your village or you have to.

00:27:48.382 --> 00:28:03.519
So that's why I created the bump and and Beyond Virtual Village, which is essentially so that we have access to the information right, so that service providers like you can share what moms need to know Absolutely, and, like your wealth of information, you know.

00:28:03.859 --> 00:28:05.746
And we don't know, because you've gone through.

00:28:05.746 --> 00:28:08.817
Yeah, yes, absolutely, and we don't know.

00:28:08.836 --> 00:28:10.241
And even if somebody doesn't.

00:28:10.241 --> 00:28:17.624
Yeah, exactly, and even if it's not, for you to have like one condensed place where you can learn about it is so important.

00:28:17.624 --> 00:28:22.732
You know, like, oh, I don't know if I need lactation, but my gosh, that infant massage is really important.

00:28:22.732 --> 00:28:24.036
That sounds like it would.

00:28:24.036 --> 00:28:39.637
And I'm just going to say I have done some sort of variation of the infant massage, probably not to the extent or to the expertise of what you have done, but because my kids had colic and then I have friends whose babies are, like you know, constipated, I'm like give them to me, let's move around.

00:28:39.637 --> 00:28:44.949
You know, they do tell us that in nursing school they do talk about that movement and how to?

00:28:44.949 --> 00:28:49.796
You know, it's a brief verb, not even a chapter probably a paragraph, but they do.

00:28:49.836 --> 00:28:51.337
I mean NICU nurses are often.

00:28:51.337 --> 00:29:05.958
When I went through my training I had NICU nurses there, right, they often massage preemies to shorten the duration in the hospital, right, and you massaging them is just intuitive, like we know intuitively that we should be caressing and touching.

00:29:05.958 --> 00:29:13.201
And golden hour and skin scan and kangaroo care, like all of that has been around, right, and it's still around for millennia, so it's not new.

00:29:13.201 --> 00:29:18.461
But intuitively we know as women and as mothers that our babies need touch.

00:29:18.461 --> 00:29:28.441
They need that skin to skin and I've even seen a device that massages baby and it's cute, but I'm like the whole point is like your hand to your baby's body right.

00:29:29.330 --> 00:29:35.859
While in India, midwife will come and massage mom and baby, here we teach parents how to massage their babies for a couple reasons.

00:29:35.859 --> 00:29:38.673
One, no one can afford to have someone come to their house every day.

00:29:38.673 --> 00:29:46.461
But, more importantly, we are trying to build the parents' capacity that, even after I'm gone, you know how to massage.

00:29:46.461 --> 00:29:53.550
Like it should not be something cute you did for baby when they were little, but it's like part of your ethos, your family's lifestyle.

00:29:53.550 --> 00:29:54.554
This is what we do.

00:29:54.554 --> 00:29:58.471
It helps us, you know, get over hard days, get over, colleague, whatever it is.

00:29:58.912 --> 00:30:10.253
But our family is about loving touch, and so, if I can teach a parent how to massage our baby, as much as I would love to massage these cute babies all day long, it's just oxytocin everywhere.

00:30:10.253 --> 00:30:14.532
Right, I would have wanted to do the best job in the world, but I have to do it.

00:30:14.532 --> 00:30:32.717
I do it on a baby doll and mom will follow or dad will follow, partner will follow, and they will learn as I go, and so for me it's really important that they know how to do it when the session is over, otherwise it doesn't have the impact that is needed that you can say okay, colic is over six months down your line.

00:30:32.717 --> 00:30:36.102
The baby's teething oh wait, I remember there are strokes for that.

00:30:36.102 --> 00:30:41.653
Or, in a year, baby's having growing pain oh, I remember the strokes for that.

00:30:41.653 --> 00:30:48.115
So I really want it to be a practice that mom's comfortable doing without having somebody outside coming doing for them.

00:30:48.536 --> 00:30:49.440
Yeah, I love that.

00:30:49.440 --> 00:31:05.153
That's so important too, because I think that's another reason why I like the community is because everybody has to have a virtual offer at a price point that works for most people, because, like you said, nobody can afford to have the midwife in this country come to your house and massage you every day.

00:31:05.153 --> 00:31:13.030
So you need to learn those skills and I think it's just such a game changer to be able to be exposed to that information and decide what works for you.

00:31:13.751 --> 00:31:22.902
Yeah, and when I you know I didn't share this, but the same week that I was being trained to be an infant massage therapist instructor, my daughter was two, as I'd shared.

00:31:22.902 --> 00:31:27.723
She woke up at midnight screaming, and so my husband and I jumped out of bed.

00:31:27.723 --> 00:31:32.298
And I remembered then, cause we could tell like, oh, this sounds like a gas pain.

00:31:32.298 --> 00:31:37.349
And I remember that daycare said she had a lot of sweet potatoes which are good for you, but a lot of fiber.

00:31:38.173 --> 00:31:42.469
So you know, in that moment I'm like, okay, we can give her gas colic drops or guess what.

00:31:42.469 --> 00:31:48.021
I just learned this routine like literally that day were gas colic, and so I asked my husband.

00:31:48.021 --> 00:31:49.050
I said, should I do the routine?

00:31:49.050 --> 00:31:50.093
He said, well, it can't hurt.

00:31:50.093 --> 00:31:53.559
And I'm still a little bit like nervous, insecure.

00:31:53.559 --> 00:31:54.480
What if it doesn't work?

00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:55.303
What if I look dumb?

00:31:55.303 --> 00:31:56.223
What if it hurts her?

00:31:56.223 --> 00:31:58.355
What if the crying continues?

00:31:58.355 --> 00:31:59.298
You know all those things.

00:31:59.298 --> 00:32:03.673
There's so much intuition that we have that is sort of we're robbed of every day.

00:32:03.673 --> 00:32:08.959
But, like you, you knew that touch was good for your kids without being trained in massage.

00:32:08.959 --> 00:32:14.645
And so I was like hesitant and self-doubting but I went ahead and did it.

00:32:14.645 --> 00:32:17.634
I did the routine in less than five minutes, kelly.

00:32:17.634 --> 00:32:22.050
She exploded right Like so much for a wipe.

00:32:22.050 --> 00:32:25.683
So we jumped into the shower, got cleaned up, came back out.

00:32:25.683 --> 00:32:27.750
She had another explosive diaper.

00:32:27.750 --> 00:32:29.355
We jumped back into the shower.

00:32:29.355 --> 00:32:30.156
I came back out.

00:32:30.156 --> 00:32:32.903
She had a third diaper, like it literally cleaned her out.

00:32:33.069 --> 00:32:34.616
You know my husband's like what did you do?

00:32:34.616 --> 00:32:36.678
You exploded, our daughter, and she did.

00:32:36.678 --> 00:32:38.455
She just got cleaned out.

00:32:38.455 --> 00:32:38.938
But guess what?

00:32:38.938 --> 00:32:40.576
She slept beautifully the rest of the night.

00:32:40.576 --> 00:32:51.478
And so not only did I help her right immediately, holistically, naturally, effectively I also felt empowered as a result of it.

00:32:51.478 --> 00:32:57.338
I was like, wow, I just helped her with my hands, I just solved her gas problems without any intervention.

00:32:57.338 --> 00:33:00.997
I didn't have to rush to the hospital, I didn't, none of that, I just did it myself.

00:33:01.718 --> 00:33:10.819
Double feature right that you that I get from teaching like not only am I helping them help their baby, but I'm helping them feel like I got this, and we don't often feel like that as parents.

00:33:10.819 --> 00:33:12.346
We don't feel like I got this, and we don't often feel like that as parents.

00:33:12.346 --> 00:33:18.580
We don't feel like I got this, or once we do got it, there's another thing they're expressing that we don't got.

00:33:18.580 --> 00:33:19.390
So I love that.

00:33:19.390 --> 00:33:26.794
They have a sense of empowerment and like, okay, even if I don't know this or I don't know how to help them, I can learn, I can get it.

00:33:26.794 --> 00:33:32.703
And so there is that piece as well that I really love, that I can help a mom or dad feel empowered.

00:33:38.849 --> 00:33:39.311
Yeah, that's amazing.

00:33:39.311 --> 00:33:40.978
You're talking about massaging both mom and baby and the NICU nurses learning.

00:33:40.999 --> 00:34:10.422
So labor and delivery nurses are now learning that's part of spinning babies is the actual massage touch, so like when they're talking about the ways to touch to get mom loosened up, they talk about the fascia and so like the really light touch and the jiggles and the just warming your hands and that kind of stuff to loosen up the fascia and then moving into positions that like stretch and elongate some of those muscles that can kind of, when you're sitting for so long, be tensed up and make it hard to deliver.

00:34:10.550 --> 00:34:29.333
They're showing us, they're requiring now nurses in some of the hospitals that I work at to go to some of these classes like spinning babies, and we had a purposeful positioning class to continue to help nurses understand how to utilize touch in order to make delivery more effective, and it's making everybody's hospital experience better.

00:34:29.333 --> 00:34:30.836
Oh, that's amazing.

00:34:30.836 --> 00:34:34.914
So, yeah, I hear what you're saying and I see also the twofold benefit.

00:34:34.914 --> 00:34:51.891
It's not just about positioning, it's not about thinking about the baby in the pelvis and the bones, it's also about how to utilize touch to bring about the oxytocin rush and the safety and the connection that you need in order to feel safe in a strange environment having your baby.

00:34:51.891 --> 00:34:53.094
Absolutely.

00:34:53.235 --> 00:34:53.715
And right.

00:34:53.715 --> 00:34:59.434
And so, to that point, touch is the first sense that develops in utero and it's the last sense that leaves our bodies.

00:34:59.434 --> 00:35:05.436
When we die, right, you can lose your other senses, but that's the only one we can't survive without.

00:35:05.436 --> 00:35:07.239
And so baby already knows.

00:35:07.239 --> 00:35:12.318
You know a lot of moms like instinctively rub their bellies right, like how do they know to do that?

00:35:12.318 --> 00:35:15.947
Right, but that is actually really good for for them and their baby.

00:35:16.487 --> 00:35:17.751
And so there's this whole field.

00:35:17.751 --> 00:35:20.818
I mean in the East it's been there since thousands of years.

00:35:20.818 --> 00:35:25.077
But in the Western world, talking about conscious pregnancy, like what does that mean?

00:35:25.077 --> 00:35:28.233
And so a lot of people well, how can I not be conscious and pregnant?

00:35:28.233 --> 00:35:33.871
But we are told to, you know, take our vitamins, and you know.

00:35:33.871 --> 00:35:35.094
But we are told to you know, take our vitamins, and you know.

00:35:35.094 --> 00:35:39.711
Maybe we're told to exercise and eat right, but nobody talks about the mental and emotional health of us and how that affects our babies.

00:35:39.711 --> 00:35:51.393
And so we know in a lot of the field, the studies around epigenetics, which Bruce Lipton has done a lot in, and that we are affecting their perception of the world with our experience.

00:35:51.998 --> 00:35:56.677
So, not only does baby eat what we eat and all of that, but baby feels what we feel.

00:35:56.677 --> 00:35:58.320
So when we're sad, baby is sad.

00:35:58.320 --> 00:35:59.751
When we're angry, baby is angry.

00:35:59.751 --> 00:36:02.838
And that's not to say that we can't have those emotions.

00:36:02.838 --> 00:36:12.054
This is another thing I changed in my pregnancies because I learned the hard way that toddler tantrums are related to maternal stress.

00:36:12.054 --> 00:36:20.623
So what we experience right when we're carrying our babies, we think, is just what we're experiencing, but they are holding all of that.

00:36:20.623 --> 00:36:23.460
So we know that anxious moms have anxious babies.

00:36:23.460 --> 00:36:28.659
You know, we know that like there's a difference between our first, second, third children, like the third ones, are usually more chill.

00:36:28.659 --> 00:36:36.443
The first are more anxious because we were anxious, you know what we were doing and we were worried about everything and all these things.

00:36:36.443 --> 00:36:39.793
But they have found stress in umbilical cords.

00:36:39.793 --> 00:36:44.972
They have found that the taste of the amniotic fluid changes for baby when we're stressed.

00:36:45.233 --> 00:36:46.094
You know that.

00:36:46.094 --> 00:36:49.222
You know happy tears and sad tears taste different.

00:36:49.222 --> 00:36:56.476
There are all these things that they're learning more about, but the idea of epigenetics is that we are preparing our babies for the world they're being born into.

00:36:56.476 --> 00:37:10.969
So if we are stressed, we are telling them you need to be stressed because this world is like rough, but for the most part, most of us are fortunate not to be living in war-torn areas or extreme poverty or disaster zones.

00:37:10.969 --> 00:37:14.259
While there are people living there, we don't.

00:37:14.259 --> 00:37:18.177
We have an everyday modern industrial stress going through.

00:37:18.197 --> 00:37:18.960
What I did with my first.

00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:24.282
With my second I was like okay, it's, you know, it's covid, my husband's dad is dying.

00:37:24.282 --> 00:37:27.592
You know my husband, mom's husband is dying.

00:37:27.592 --> 00:37:29.641
I don't have any support, I'm isolated.

00:37:29.641 --> 00:37:35.076
I you know I put a four-year-old through like just all these stressors, but I had to be cautious.

00:37:35.076 --> 00:37:52.081
Okay, mommy's up here, I'm going to drink my favorite tea, I'm going to go for a walk, I'm going to take a bath, and my second child is super chill and I attribute that to being more conscious and conscientious in my pregnancy to say wait, I can't just think about myself Like my baby is feeling all of this.

00:37:53.143 --> 00:37:58.221
I don't manage my stress, it will be harder for me and for her in the birth.

00:37:58.221 --> 00:38:01.097
You know the birth can be difficult based on your pregnancy.

00:38:01.097 --> 00:38:10.349
The postpartum experience is affected by your pregnancy and their toddler years Because, if you think about it, if you're stressed, they're experiencing that stress.

00:38:10.349 --> 00:38:11.871
Where's that stress going to go for them?

00:38:11.871 --> 00:38:14.193
It's just going to stay until they're able to release it.

00:38:14.193 --> 00:38:21.416
And I've had clients who have children, who are really weepy or who are really anxious and like, well, what was your postpartum?

00:38:21.416 --> 00:38:22.677
Like, what were the early?

00:38:22.677 --> 00:38:24.199
Oh, I was crying all the time.

00:38:24.199 --> 00:38:33.065
Yeah, you know, we're connected, even when we're physically not anymore, and they believe that, at least for the first couple of years, you are still attached to your child.

00:38:33.065 --> 00:38:36.146
They feel what you feel, they experience what you experience.

00:38:36.166 --> 00:38:39.373
So the birth is incredibly important.

00:38:39.373 --> 00:38:44.255
Your postpartum is really important, but so is the pregnancy, you know, and put it all on mom.

00:38:44.255 --> 00:38:55.389
But like it is, it is up to us, but it's also up to our partners and our community to say, like this mom is doing an incredible thing for our society right now.

00:38:55.389 --> 00:38:56.974
They're creating a new human being.

00:38:56.974 --> 00:39:09.597
Not only is she physically building the eyebrows and eyelashes and all these wonderful things, but the quality of the child and the child's personality and values, and all of that is happening too, right now.

00:39:09.597 --> 00:39:23.440
So let's love on this mom, let's take care of her, let's make sure she's not too stressed out and she has what she needs and whatever her requests and demands are as crazy as they might seem are fulfilled, because what she's doing is massive.

00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:25.351
And let's honor what she's doing.

00:39:25.431 --> 00:39:37.621
And so there's not enough of that honoring women and the incredible work that they're doing in building babies and birthing babies and feeding babies and caring for them, you know, for their lifetime.

00:39:37.621 --> 00:39:40.650
It is, it is your service to humanity, right?

00:39:40.650 --> 00:39:41.333
We're all doing this.

00:39:41.333 --> 00:39:45.612
Like I want moms to have beautiful babies so that my kids have wonderful.

00:39:45.612 --> 00:39:48.083
You know people to live in a world with right.

00:39:48.083 --> 00:39:49.429
Like if I'm completely selfish.

00:39:49.429 --> 00:39:57.157
I want all of us to have babies who are loved on and more thriving, and baby massage is one way to do that.

00:39:57.157 --> 00:39:58.635
Conscious pregnancy is another way.

00:39:58.635 --> 00:40:04.182
Whatever you want to do to have a healthy baby and healthy life, throw it all in and ask your family.

00:40:04.182 --> 00:40:05.313
Say this is what I want.

00:40:05.313 --> 00:40:06.217
I want massages.

00:40:06.217 --> 00:40:08.356
Don't give me an expensive stroller.

00:40:08.356 --> 00:40:09.260
Give me massages.

00:40:09.260 --> 00:40:10.755
Put this on my registry.

00:40:10.755 --> 00:40:12.976
Have it paid for by flex spending.

00:40:12.976 --> 00:40:17.440
There's so many options nowadays that we didn't have when we were pregnant.

00:40:17.769 --> 00:40:18.572
Yeah, I love that.

00:40:18.572 --> 00:40:31.534
I think every mom needs to find what it is that's going to help them feel like they are safe in their bodies and taking care of themselves and being taken care of, and, yes, I think that's great and I think that we don't.

00:40:31.534 --> 00:40:52.717
We don't stress it enough because it's there's such a you know, pull up your bootstraps, society here, and it's just and it's toxic, which is which is why I'm actually haven't announced this yet, but we are going to start doing pampering showers in the postpartum period with the service registry, wow, so that we encourage moms.

00:40:52.717 --> 00:41:03.190
And the reason we're starting with the after period is, a, because it's harder and B, because it's really hard to get moms that are pregnant to think about what they want and what they're going to need until after the fact, right.

00:41:03.190 --> 00:41:05.179
So we always say prepare for pregnancy.

00:41:05.701 --> 00:41:49.485
What you have to do, I feel like more than anything, is mentally prepare for the pregnancy and the you you know, and then, if you need massages or whatever during your pregnancy, you focus on that and then, after the fact, have the village that's going to help you, so like if you needed the infant massage after, because that's just what your journey is telling you then being able to have that pampering shower a couple weeks after you deliver and be able to ask for those things yeah, and just changing the culture, because I think that there is a market for loving on moms afterwards yes, absolutely, seeing it showing up and people wanting to know how to help moms and then they just go over to the house and see the baby and they sit there and they're like I don't know what to do.

00:41:50.110 --> 00:41:58.992
Now we're going to help people learn what to do, like you can finance their postpartum journey and and be a part of that process.

00:41:58.992 --> 00:42:04.978
It looks a little bit different than it does in other countries like India, where people know what to do, right, because it's ingrained in the culture.

00:42:04.978 --> 00:42:16.025
Exactly, we can start making that part of the culture and I think that it's just so important to start changing the culture so that we love on moms after delivery is over Absolutely and you're so right.

00:42:16.065 --> 00:42:32.199
I mean, when I go to moms about belly binding mostly belly binding because that's about them they're like I don't have time and they're right, right Because they're doing all the things, but we neglect ourselves because we have the bootstraps culture.

00:42:32.199 --> 00:42:33.623
We're like that mama's doing it.

00:42:33.623 --> 00:42:34.996
I really don't have time.

00:42:34.996 --> 00:42:53.498
But there's a cost to that for us, but also for our kids, and we are still women with beautiful gifts and talents and interests, and we are mothers too, but we're not always going to be needed as much as we are needed then, and we do lose ourselves, you know.

00:42:53.498 --> 00:42:59.463
So we have to make sure that we prioritize ourselves as well as caring for our babies.

00:42:59.463 --> 00:43:08.885
And, like you said, there's either the bootstraps culture or it's like, oh, you just need this product and it'll solve problems, right, like that's what we're told.

00:43:08.885 --> 00:43:12.155
There's a multi-million dollar industry around baby registries.

00:43:12.155 --> 00:43:20.918
So I love that even though you and I didn't have that that other moms can go to a registry and create a service-based option for them.

00:43:20.918 --> 00:43:31.795
But the other thing I did differently with May 2nd, even during a pandemic, was something called a mother's blessing and that, I think, is rooted in the Native American culture.

00:43:31.795 --> 00:43:34.362
But instead of focusing on baby.

00:43:34.362 --> 00:43:41.063
The mother's blessing focuses on mama, and so and then I actually hosted one for my best friend.

00:43:41.063 --> 00:43:44.724
But we did things like doing a floral foot bath for mom.

00:43:44.724 --> 00:43:49.077
You know we all like took turns massaging her arms and legs that are tired from carrying a baby.

00:43:49.077 --> 00:43:53.952
We wrote positive notes that she could post it during labor or afterwards.

00:43:54.414 --> 00:43:54.755
For me.

00:43:54.755 --> 00:44:02.563
They created a necklace of different stones that each of them picked for whatever reason, and they made that necklace for me to wear during labor.

00:44:02.563 --> 00:44:03.909
It was about me.

00:44:03.909 --> 00:44:06.679
There were no like cute onesies and gifts for baby.

00:44:06.679 --> 00:44:07.581
It was about me.

00:44:07.581 --> 00:44:13.012
And for me to be able to read during labor like you got this mom, you are stronger than you believe.

00:44:13.012 --> 00:44:19.657
Or for me to look at notes in postpartum when I'm like really struggling and suffering, like I've got a village.

00:44:19.657 --> 00:44:20.617
They're there.

00:44:20.617 --> 00:44:27.001
They're not physically there, but they've got my back, and so that's something else that you can think about if you are pregnant.

00:44:27.702 --> 00:44:29.063
Have something that's a mother's blessing.

00:44:29.063 --> 00:44:29.764
It's intimate.

00:44:29.764 --> 00:44:34.288
No like fancy Instagram decorations, you know, no expensive showers.

00:44:34.288 --> 00:44:49.416
This is the meaningful time when you connect with your best girl and guy friends and maybe your sisters and moms are there and they're just like you are doing amazing, you're going to be an amazing mom and here are all the ways we're going to show you and you can like customize it.

00:44:49.416 --> 00:45:02.137
It was COVID, so I didn't get the loving touch, which I love, but I got the beautiful necklace and I got the positive notes for me to read and a beautiful thread for me to tie around baby's bassinet to ensure that they're safe.

00:45:02.137 --> 00:45:17.016
All these like really meaningful things that you will appreciate more than the DIY onesies that are often very like, hard to manipulate Right, and don't you feel so inept when you're buying somebody a onesie and you're sending it to them.

00:45:17.036 --> 00:45:18.300
You're like this is meaningless.

00:45:18.300 --> 00:45:18.740
I'm just.

00:45:18.740 --> 00:45:28.284
I'm trying to express to them that I care about what their postpartum experience is like or what their baby's journey is like, but it just feels so like nothing.

00:45:28.726 --> 00:45:37.594
Let's make it more meaningful, yeah, and I've noticed that there's a trend now to do the what do they call it Like nesting parties.

00:45:37.594 --> 00:45:52.802
So you're going over maybe the mom and dad are giving you pizza and soda and you're like helping them get ready for their baby with the room or setting up the diaper state, whatever that is, and that's like a really cool new trend happening up.

00:45:52.822 --> 00:45:55.128
The diaper state, whatever that is, and that's like a really cool new trend happening.

00:45:55.128 --> 00:46:02.811
We didn't have one, but we lived in New York with my daughter and my husband called his cousin who lived down the street, which is why we lived in the area we lived in and I was like pizza and beer guys.

00:46:02.911 --> 00:46:05.556
Here you go I got you Please help me.

00:46:05.556 --> 00:46:15.304
Right, or even yeah, and there's things that you can do in postpartum to get help, and the same thing when now, when I have friends or family that are pregnant, like this is really not going to make a difference.

00:46:15.304 --> 00:46:36.634
I know that you want to register, but like, even like a breastfeeding station, a basket with like water and all the things that you need for breastfeeding that you never knew that you would need because it seems so natural, like that will go a much, you know, longer way so you could have a party to like create that you know yes, and come into the house and look and see what you could, where it could go, what you could use.

00:46:36.673 --> 00:46:38.152
Yeah, don't go, yeah.

00:46:38.492 --> 00:46:39.614
And I did that with a friend.

00:46:39.614 --> 00:46:51.260
In between knowing what I knew and experiencing it because you really don't know until you go through it You're like, oh, everybody's having babies, right, like everybody's having babies, you know what's the big deal, why are they making a big deal about breastfeeding?

00:46:51.260 --> 00:47:19.373
And then you go through it and you're like, oh, okay, now again, it's not a friend who had a baby and it was like you know, went over, because she was struggling, you know, with some postpartum depression, anxiety, and I was like I'm going to fold your laundry, I'm going to wash dishes, I would love to just sit here and hold that cute baby, but to help you, like you want to be able to do that.

00:47:19.393 --> 00:47:20.637
You want to bond with your baby right, I think that from you.

00:47:20.637 --> 00:47:22.664
And so think about when you visit a mom, not about you, what you want, but what they need.

00:47:22.664 --> 00:47:25.090
Bring them the coffee, bring them a lunch, yeah, put the dishes away favorite drink from starbucks.

00:47:25.152 --> 00:47:27.918
Whatever you think of, yes, you want to keep.

00:47:27.918 --> 00:47:28.820
You know if they want.

00:47:28.860 --> 00:47:31.253
You don't make them ask they don't know what they want.

00:47:31.253 --> 00:47:32.195
They don't know what they need.

00:47:32.514 --> 00:47:37.202
They're barely alive right now or too shy to ask for help.

00:47:37.202 --> 00:47:39.896
You know just too, we don't want to just come into a house.

00:47:39.896 --> 00:47:44.182
But you really just need to come into the house, look around and see what needs to be done and just do it.

00:47:44.182 --> 00:47:45.489
Don't be asked, don't wait.

00:47:45.489 --> 00:47:54.925
I don't care if they get offended, but they're going to appreciate that their dishes are washed, their laundry is and they have a few minutes extra when baby's sleeping to also take it out.

00:47:54.925 --> 00:47:56.367
That will go a long way.

00:47:56.728 --> 00:48:00.697
And put a frozen dinner in the fridge Exactly, and we remember.

00:48:00.697 --> 00:48:05.657
We will always remember, as moms, who was there during our postpartum, who was there during our pregnancy to care for us.

00:48:05.657 --> 00:48:06.701
You never forget that.

00:48:06.829 --> 00:48:07.371
No, you don't.

00:48:07.371 --> 00:48:12.797
The people that came to me and were like, tell me what you're feeling, yeah, and I was like when is it going to get back to normal?

00:48:12.797 --> 00:48:17.043
And I remember that's the fun question, right.

00:48:17.063 --> 00:48:18.364
Because you know what she's going to say to me.

00:48:20.030 --> 00:48:21.634
Exactly Redefine normal.

00:48:21.634 --> 00:48:22.936
Never, friend.

00:48:22.936 --> 00:48:26.744
This is new normal and you will figure it out.

00:48:26.744 --> 00:48:27.710
That's right.

00:48:27.710 --> 00:48:39.949
It was terrifying but also so freeing, because it was the ability to release that expectation yes, that I was going back to normal, that you might have a baby and go back to normal.

00:48:39.949 --> 00:48:42.074
There is no more normal like your.

00:48:42.074 --> 00:48:49.786
Normal cannot ever be the same and you need to know that, going into motherhood, you're not going to go back to the efficiency you once had.

00:48:49.786 --> 00:48:54.963
You're going to figure out how to do it less efficient and more intentional.

00:48:55.224 --> 00:49:02.376
Yeah, and I like to be efficient and effective, but they're teaching us just like chill out and slow down, right, like there is a reason for that.

00:49:02.376 --> 00:49:04.998
Our brains are literally different than they were.

00:49:04.998 --> 00:49:18.278
It's not that we're not smarter, but they've been reorganized to care for a human being than to, like, manage spreadsheets or to-do lists right like our, and there's a season for everything there's a yeah, absolutely like.

00:49:18.338 --> 00:49:19.621
This isn't like.

00:49:19.621 --> 00:49:22.119
Your new normal isn't necessarily going to be forever.

00:49:22.119 --> 00:49:32.775
No, your new normal is the beginning of this normal, for now, until your child finds another phase to go through, yeah, get and like, help you well, and then also like having a six and a nine-year-old.

00:49:32.775 --> 00:49:42.974
Now I'm realizing I can do things that I couldn't do last year, right, and so now the new normal is getting back to look a little bit more like the old normal but my priorities are different.

00:49:43.215 --> 00:49:43.797
They're different.

00:49:43.936 --> 00:49:45.420
And the things that I want to do are different.

00:49:45.829 --> 00:49:46.711
Yeah, yeah.

00:49:46.711 --> 00:50:00.297
I often think like, oh, I wouldn't I miss the newborn stage, but I don't miss me in the newborn stage, like I'm going to be me now, right Like healed and all that taking care of a beautiful little baby and not like getting you know I'm not tired, I'm not exhausted.

00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:06.762
But there is something that you mentioned that's really valuable that I found as much as I love, like working one-on-one.

00:50:06.762 --> 00:50:14.614
The group classes can be incredibly beneficial because you have other parents around to say this worked for us, this didn't work for us.

00:50:14.614 --> 00:50:21.753
You get validation, you get resources, you get renewed energy to say, okay, I can do this right.

00:50:21.753 --> 00:50:27.313
Yeah, and so I love that when moms come together in a group class to say like, hey, try this, or this worked for us.

00:50:27.313 --> 00:50:32.829
Facebook groups are better, worse I know some of them like it brings out the trolls and people are mean to each other.

00:50:32.829 --> 00:50:39.297
There's also a lot of anecdotal evidence that you can say, oh, maybe we went through the exact thing and this is what worked for us.

00:50:39.297 --> 00:50:48.356
Yeah, so this is sort of a real life Facebook group, and what you've created, too, is getting moms to come together as a village to support each other, share resources.

00:50:48.356 --> 00:50:53.411
So there is a lot of.

00:50:53.431 --> 00:51:00.134
I remember being in going to La Leche League meeting after my first and I was like overwhelmed and exhausted and breastfeeding like was draining, and I was always like when is this going to be over, you know.

00:51:00.134 --> 00:51:01.818
And then later on I enjoyed it.

00:51:01.818 --> 00:51:14.934
But those early days were like excruciating, and I think I asked a question like how do you, how do you cope, or how you know, and somebody said I think she said something like online shopping and everyone laughed and I was like, yeah, okay, I think.

00:51:14.934 --> 00:51:21.137
Sometimes I'm like, oh, I couldn't distract myself by scrolling and at that time, you know, social media wasn't as big as it is now.

00:51:21.137 --> 00:51:27.860
But just to hear another mom say like there really is nothing to do, no easy way to get around it.

00:51:27.860 --> 00:51:28.983
You have to go through it.

00:51:28.983 --> 00:51:30.833
But one way I found to cope is to shop.

00:51:30.833 --> 00:51:35.512
Yeah, amazon makes so much good money from your parents right.

00:51:35.612 --> 00:51:38.338
Yes, the validation was really what I needed.

00:51:38.338 --> 00:51:48.920
And also, going to a breastfeeding center in DC one day and hearing another mom maybe I seemed to frazzle and overwhelmed and she's like you're doing a great job and I was like, well, thanks, you know.

00:51:48.920 --> 00:52:00.583
So it's just really nice to get that community of support from somewhere to validate and keep us moving and encouraging us to like it will get easier, it will promise you.

00:52:01.349 --> 00:52:03.737
Yeah, Well, and in finding a community you align with.

00:52:03.737 --> 00:52:05.391
So you're talking about there are trolls, right?

00:52:05.391 --> 00:52:08.197
If there's trolls, maybe that's not your community.

00:52:08.197 --> 00:52:09.922
No, there are good groups out there.

00:52:09.922 --> 00:52:14.940
So just have the patience to keep looking until you find where you're comfortable Like, for instance.

00:52:14.940 --> 00:52:25.398
So I joined the group that's in our local area just because another mom recommended it and I was so jaded from another national group that I was on because there are so many trolls in that.

00:52:25.478 --> 00:52:25.778
Right.

00:52:25.918 --> 00:52:38.605
Yeah, and I was like I don't know, I don't like mom's groups you know, and so I got into the one that I'm in now and they are so helpful and so nonjudgmental that it was like I even learned skills to not judge people from this group.

00:52:38.605 --> 00:52:49.215
Yes, I was like, oh, I'm judging myself Right, and also, because I'm judging myself, I'm judging other people and maybe I should just chill out and I'm like learning from this group.

00:52:49.518 --> 00:53:05.755
Yeah, find your group, right, like don't settle, absolutely don't settle, because there I've been on and I'm still on some groups that they're just like me, like unnecessarily hostile and aggressive and like this is just not necessary, right, like we are all struggling.

00:53:05.755 --> 00:53:07.320
We're all on the struggle bus together.

00:53:07.320 --> 00:53:10.251
Let's not pull each other down, let's just help each other.

00:53:10.271 --> 00:53:21.150
Stay on, yeah, and I think when, so nine years ago, when my daughter was born, we were just coming out of that mommy judgment phase, okay, of like social media, yeah, you know.

00:53:21.150 --> 00:53:24.541
And now we're like we've slowly transitioned to that.

00:53:24.541 --> 00:53:32.181
You got this mom and like being you know supportive, but that was just such an interesting transition to have a baby.

00:53:32.590 --> 00:53:37.384
Yeah, like in, we're not like stressed out enough it's stressed out enough.

00:53:37.384 --> 00:53:49.297
You're railing on yourself enough doing a good job, and then you get that from the online community that people you know being mean it doesn't help yes, yeah, like find your group, like kelly said yeah.

00:53:49.737 --> 00:54:22.690
So there's a couple of just hospital things that you mentioned that have kind of since you had your first delivery was planned in a hospital because of the breach and being 42 weeks, there are some things that have actually changed in the hospital and I want to share that because when I started as a labor and delivery nurse, like nine years ago, it was true Like people were not able to get into hands and knees at certain hospitals due to liability.

00:54:22.690 --> 00:54:27.996
Like nine years ago, if we had had a patient with an epidural, we would have not done hands and knees because it's not safe.

00:54:27.996 --> 00:54:31.181
We would have not done hands and knees because it's not safe.

00:54:31.181 --> 00:54:45.880
But now, with spinning babies and with the purposeful positioning, they're teaching us how to safely maneuver somebody who is epiduralized into the hands and knees position and hold them there without hurting ourselves or them.

00:54:45.880 --> 00:54:46.722
Wow.

00:54:46.722 --> 00:54:48.596
So I feel empowered.

00:54:48.596 --> 00:54:52.661
At this point you need from coworkers and my coworkers also feel empowered.

00:54:52.661 --> 00:54:57.300
We all use those skills to get patients at hands and knees and epidurals.

00:54:57.340 --> 00:54:59.916
Now which is wonderful because then we can turn your baby.

00:54:59.916 --> 00:55:13.943
And also I noticed that when I first started they started to consider like a person being awake with their arms underneath the ties, the Velcro ties that you can get out of.

00:55:13.943 --> 00:55:18.882
That's not okay for people that are awake because it could be considered a restraint.

00:55:19.670 --> 00:55:25.103
So, at the hospitals I work at I can't speak for other hospitals we haven't been doing that.

00:55:25.103 --> 00:55:34.356
So it's something that, for safety when someone is asleep, you need to so that they don't fall off the table because of some involuntary jerking of their arms or whatever.

00:55:34.797 --> 00:55:50.715
But at this point it's to be expected that if you are awake for a surgery and I'm saying this because I want my listeners to know that if you're awake for a surgery, you should not need to have your arms tied down unless you're a threat to yourself or someone else, which is a completely different scenario.

00:55:51.077 --> 00:55:53.643
They mentioned that it was so you don't touch your IVs.

00:55:53.643 --> 00:55:56.346
So I was like okay, if I don't touch them.

00:55:56.346 --> 00:55:56.869
That's dumb.

00:55:56.869 --> 00:55:59.018
Do I need to not?

00:55:59.530 --> 00:56:04.353
They will use every excuse to try yeah, no, but we don't do.

00:56:04.353 --> 00:56:04.753
We don't.

00:56:04.753 --> 00:56:08.215
At least at the hospitals that I work at, we don't do that anymore because it's considered a risk rate.

00:56:08.215 --> 00:56:14.097
It's there If mom feels more secure hanging on to something.

00:56:14.117 --> 00:56:15.670
It's there At the hospital that I'm working at and that was from a C-section.

00:56:16.070 --> 00:56:17.414
Yes, that was from your C-section.

00:56:17.414 --> 00:56:33.431
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we would never tie someone down in labor the skin-to-skin at the C-section, so that has been something that it's a challenge, right, because you need staff to kind of assist with that, because you're covered.

00:56:33.431 --> 00:56:34.896
How did that work for you?

00:56:34.896 --> 00:56:44.315
Because up until very recently we haven't been and we don't do it standard for C-sections at the hospitals that I'm working at, but we've been trying to push for it, so how did that look for you?

00:56:45.018 --> 00:56:53.043
I feel like we were able to get the immediate skin to skin, and that was the one reason I didn't want my hands, so I'm gonna be able to hold her.

00:56:53.391 --> 00:56:53.471
I.

00:56:53.471 --> 00:57:02.780
Did you feel it or did you feel strong enough, like you didn't have any issues with the anesthesia or I felt strong enough, but I didn't have complete mobility, I think.

00:57:03.282 --> 00:57:04.733
Right, I was still a little bit restricted.

00:57:04.733 --> 00:57:10.335
My husband was there too, but I I feel like I was able to hold her after okay after.

00:57:10.355 --> 00:57:21.094
Yeah, yeah, so because I just remember, like five or six years ago, there was a post on social media about like being charged for the skin to skin and interesting, and it was kind of.

00:57:21.094 --> 00:57:50.885
It was interesting because it was essentially charged for another staff member to make sure that, because you don't have any muscle control from basically like your breasts down or even sometimes your nipples down, it's hard because you can't use your muscles to engage your arms, like you're very limited, and so that was the thought process, another thought process, and I'm just sharing this because we need to figure out how to problem solve this and evolve right Evidence shows that skin to skin is best right after delivery.

00:57:51.065 --> 00:58:03.538
Yes, yes, and we had issues with the temperature of the OR, and there's now some evidence that it doesn't need to be as cold as it normally is.

00:58:03.838 --> 00:58:06.659
There's being pushed back and I believe ACOG has talked about this as well.

00:58:06.659 --> 00:58:13.905
But then one of the hospitals I worked at, there was concern from the neonatal team that the OR is too cold to be doing skin to skin with the mom.

00:58:13.905 --> 00:58:21.891
But if the mom is, if the baby's fully covered and the staff's making sure, and then that leads back to the having the staff there to educate, to make sure.

00:58:21.891 --> 00:58:27.710
So it's just like one thing leads to another and it's all about to make it hard to do skin to skin.

00:58:27.710 --> 00:58:29.574
But it's worth problem solving.

00:58:29.574 --> 00:58:31.900
Yes, absolutely, hospitals out there.

00:58:31.900 --> 00:58:36.400
We need to continue to work on prioritizing skin to skin during the C-section.

00:58:36.840 --> 00:58:42.742
Yes, absolutely, and yeah, we know that first hours are critical, especially for the breastfeeding relationship.

00:58:42.742 --> 00:58:45.760
Have you seen the same thing with the delayed cord clamping?

00:58:46.710 --> 00:58:58.583
So, yes, it's standard 45 seconds to a minute at both of the hospitals that I work at, and some providers, if the baby's okay, will let it go longer during the C-section.

00:58:58.583 --> 00:59:02.150
But we also want to make sure that we get mom sewn up.

00:59:02.150 --> 00:59:03.675
So it's like that balance right.

00:59:03.675 --> 00:59:09.400
We're not going to be five minutes of delayed cord clamping when someone is sitting there on the OR table open.

00:59:10.570 --> 00:59:12.739
It's not the best use of our time.

00:59:12.739 --> 00:59:14.797
So I'm seeing changes.

00:59:14.797 --> 00:59:16.938
I see changes that need to continue to happen.

00:59:16.938 --> 00:59:21.557
Like you were talking about the vaginal seeding there's evidence for it.

00:59:21.557 --> 00:59:26.998
We just don't know enough from the medical standpoint to make it standardized.

00:59:26.998 --> 00:59:33.621
Like then we have questions of if your group made a strep positive or what if there's stuff in the vaginal canal that we don't test for.

00:59:33.621 --> 00:59:37.777
Some of it is a little excessive in the questioning, but that's how we study things right.

00:59:37.777 --> 00:59:40.123
So we ask all the questions and then we filter them.

00:59:40.590 --> 00:59:50.838
So what I notice is things start to happen around 15 years after we start seeing the evidence and everything pop up.

00:59:50.838 --> 00:59:59.280
It just takes a long time because you have to have the studies, then you have to have the hospitals hear about the studies, and then you have to have the change and the trial and error.

00:59:59.280 --> 01:00:00.471
And how do we make this work?

01:00:00.471 --> 01:00:03.599
And then, oh, that didn't work for this one and that led to a bad outcome.

01:00:03.599 --> 01:00:04.552
So how do we prevent that?

01:00:04.552 --> 01:00:10.773
It has to go through all of that process in order to become standard in hospital and then people have to be brave enough to try it.

01:00:11.335 --> 01:00:15.523
So, I feel like we will eventually get there.

01:00:15.523 --> 01:00:49.297
No-transcript, so I don't even know if there's anything.

01:00:49.297 --> 01:00:55.076
Yeah, it's not common, but I have interviewed people that asked for it, got it, you know.

01:00:55.076 --> 01:00:58.831
So it's coming along, and that's just how change works.

01:00:58.831 --> 01:01:02.951
I used to be I used to be the type of person that I was like well, why don't we just do it?

01:01:02.951 --> 01:01:03.130
You?

01:01:03.170 --> 01:01:04.855
know like what's stopping us right.

01:01:05.235 --> 01:01:26.661
I've seen the process evolve and I appreciate what it takes and while it's still frustrating, I like to share the process because I think that going into a hospital where you've heard about a thing, the thing isn't happening is frustrating and it's easy to be judgmental and it's easy to be angry and say, well, this hospital sucks because we're not doing this.

01:01:26.661 --> 01:01:35.173
There's a lot more that goes into it and, yes, you can ask for things and we can try to get creative and work around it for that one person without making it standard policy.

01:01:35.173 --> 01:01:42.025
So there's ways around it and I want people to feel empowered to ask for things because the more we ask, the more it will come up.

01:01:42.025 --> 01:01:49.177
And especially if you're writing like a review of the hospital, like if you say something like you know, I really wish that you guys would look into vaginal seating.

01:01:49.177 --> 01:01:50.590
That would have made my experience better.

01:01:51.251 --> 01:01:56.699
That kind of thing will actually help the process because more and more people are asking for the same thing.

01:01:56.699 --> 01:01:58.523
We're more likely to start doing it standard.

01:01:58.523 --> 01:01:59.463
It's going to.

01:01:59.463 --> 01:02:00.346
They're going to listen.

01:02:00.346 --> 01:02:05.259
The goal for hospitals now is to give patient-centered care.

01:02:05.259 --> 01:02:15.815
So the more you ask for what you want whether you get exactly as you pictured or you get like a part of it, the more you're teaching them how to give you individualized care.

01:02:15.815 --> 01:02:27.422
You're not being a pain in the butt, you're just showing them what people want so that they can develop a product that can give people what they want and that's hospitals or businesses too, and that's what they want.

01:02:28.010 --> 01:02:29.797
Well, how about the lymphotomy position?

01:02:29.797 --> 01:02:31.847
Is that still like Less common?

01:02:32.309 --> 01:02:33.630
Okay, yeah, it's less common.

01:02:33.630 --> 01:02:38.614
Most of it is like older providers that are kind of stuck in their ways that only do that.

01:02:38.614 --> 01:02:45.480
We don't use stirrups very often unless it's just for specific positioning or if the patient feels more comfortable.

01:02:45.480 --> 01:03:00.117
So personally and the nurses I work with are taught to move positions when pushing because physiologically and you know it makes sense, because physiologically and you're like you know it makes sense you have to.

01:03:00.137 --> 01:03:01.744
You have to not be on the sacrum in order for the baby to move past the sacrum.

01:03:01.764 --> 01:03:02.769
It's really the only way it works.

01:03:02.769 --> 01:03:09.211
And so, at the very least, if we have a provider that really wants the lithotomy position, it will.

01:03:09.211 --> 01:03:12.391
The patient will be on a tilt, but guess what, the providers aren't in there when we're pushing.

01:03:12.391 --> 01:03:16.338
We call them when the baby is crowning.

01:03:16.338 --> 01:03:18.862
They don't have time.

01:03:18.862 --> 01:03:22.197
They have to manage all the patients on the floor right, and so we're one-to-one.

01:03:22.237 --> 01:03:29.853
When we're pushing, the nurse's assignment gets changed so that that nurse can be with that patient the entire time we're pushing, because they need help.

01:03:29.853 --> 01:03:57.882
So it's up to the nurse to put the patient into positions and then, when the doctor gets there, if we have to move to lithotomy because that's what makes them comfortable I'll sneak a little roll under there so that we're not flat on our sacrum, or I'll move them down, because each bed in the hospital has like a little dip and it's made for the sacrum, so like the pressure's on the top part of the sacrum so that the bottom part, the coccyx, opens up, and that's how the bed is shaped if you're all the way down to the bottom Right.

01:03:57.882 --> 01:04:02.813
So there's ways to get around that and it's really important to know.

01:04:03.494 --> 01:04:08.922
Yeah, I can feel for moms because there is so much to know, so just like that's why you get support.

01:04:08.922 --> 01:04:10.125
Part of your stuff is resources.

01:04:10.125 --> 01:04:21.621
Yeah Right, get the support you need for the whole journey from like conception to one to two years postpartum, like whatever you need.

01:04:21.621 --> 01:04:23.951
But I mean pelvic floor therapists are helping and in chiropractic soup.

01:04:23.951 --> 01:04:29.291
But pelvic floor therapists are helping moms prepare for labor, right oh yeah, like they're helping them.

01:04:29.371 --> 01:04:38.541
Okay, this is how you open up your pelvis, right, like you have a lot more room that you think, but there's so much fear you know so much fear I see even Facebook.

01:04:38.541 --> 01:04:39.603
I'm so scared I'm giving birth.

01:04:39.603 --> 01:04:44.661
I'm so scared there's so much fear in our media and just everywhere of giving birth.

01:04:44.661 --> 01:05:06.273
But, like, if you have a good team to say this is the things that you need to do, like, for me, I think my daughter's breech positioning was due to my sitting all day Right, if I my sitting all day, right, if I'm sitting all day, 68 hours a day, there's no space for it to move, and so some of the things they did in india, like my mom was like that was also for delivery, right, so they would.

01:05:06.914 --> 01:05:10.047
Even pregnant women were sweeping like while squatting.

01:05:10.047 --> 01:05:11.833
So what are you doing?

01:05:11.833 --> 01:05:12.496
Your pelvis?

01:05:12.496 --> 01:05:15.469
You're allowing for more room, you're strengthening your pelvic floor.

01:05:15.469 --> 01:05:25.478
They didn't have pelvic floor issues, right, because they were doing exercises or practices that were their chores, that just prepared them for birth and they didn't know that.

01:05:25.478 --> 01:05:30.121
So when I have, you know, indian friends who are pregnant, listen to your moms and grandmothers.

01:05:30.121 --> 01:05:31.443
They just listen to them.

01:05:31.443 --> 01:05:32.824
They know so much.

01:05:32.824 --> 01:05:41.423
Definitely, move, do these certain yoga positions, or do these certain squatting not so close to like delivery but like these will help you prepare for labor.

01:05:41.423 --> 01:05:49.134
They'll open up your pelvis, they'll help strengthen that pelvic floor, because I know I had that pain and I can say the pelvic floor pain was very real.

01:05:49.134 --> 01:05:59.422
After the birth of my second I had a second degree tear and the pelvic floor pain was worse than like the labor, so like it can be really rough.

01:05:59.422 --> 01:06:04.822
But there are things that you can do to prepare your body for a better labor and birth experience.

01:06:05.070 --> 01:06:14.302
Yeah, it's so important to prepare your body, your mind, all of the things for the birthing process and beyond and have all of those resources available.

01:06:14.590 --> 01:06:17.315
When you said you know, ask questions advocate.

01:06:17.315 --> 01:06:18.416
Yeah, ask the questions.

01:06:18.416 --> 01:06:21.844
If you don't like one offer, ask is there another way?

01:06:21.844 --> 01:06:22.389
Like is?

01:06:22.389 --> 01:06:24.074
There something else I can do Is there?

01:06:24.074 --> 01:06:26.141
Do I not have to have my hands tied down?

01:06:26.141 --> 01:06:26.380
Do I?

01:06:26.380 --> 01:06:28.538
Can I eat real food for the just like?

01:06:29.179 --> 01:06:39.510
there will often be other options, but we just don't know to ask yes, tell me what that was that they did for the real food option for the gestational diabetes test.

01:06:39.990 --> 01:06:46.483
I think she gave me a list of items that I could choose from and she tested my blood sugar.

01:06:46.483 --> 01:06:47.371
I had the meal.

01:06:47.371 --> 01:06:58.190
She came back I don't know what it was like an hour later and retested it and so, yeah, and so I was like, well, this is a lot easier because the glucose test was like blah disgusting.

01:06:58.190 --> 01:07:07.856
And maybe it's an issue of practicality in the hospital, Maybe it's an issue of liability, Maybe it's just like food options, allergies, all of those things, and then that's why that was created.

01:07:08.478 --> 01:07:10.798
But ask them like can I have real food?

01:07:10.798 --> 01:07:11.840
Can I do this?

01:07:11.840 --> 01:07:12.659
Can I, you know?

01:07:12.659 --> 01:07:13.581
Is this an option?

01:07:13.581 --> 01:07:27.878
And if it's no, then you know, then you, then you have a different path, but oftentimes there could be other options than the one that you give in well, even if you, just, like some providers, have no idea that that's being done, yeah, yeah.

01:07:28.280 --> 01:07:31.432
So if you bring it in and say, hey, would this be an option?

01:07:31.432 --> 01:07:34.480
Even if they say, no, yeah, you've presented it to them.

01:07:34.480 --> 01:07:35.523
Yeah, exactly.

01:07:35.523 --> 01:07:42.092
And then if the next person does the same thing, and the next person, and the next person, they're going to start really looking into it into that right.

01:07:42.112 --> 01:07:58.461
So just don't be shy when it comes to asking questions like that, because if it doesn't make things change for you, it might make change that things change for the next mom, yeah, and if you have another baby, it might be that might have led to you being able to do that in your next pregnancy, right?

01:07:58.501 --> 01:08:00.505
So that's how change happens.

01:08:00.505 --> 01:08:03.411
Yes, and the self-advocacy I think is really important.

01:08:03.411 --> 01:08:08.262
You don't have to just accept everything and disregard your own interest.

01:08:08.262 --> 01:08:12.961
Desires intuition, but just ask the question and at least you're not left wondering like what is?

01:08:13.809 --> 01:08:17.872
Yeah, and that's kind of what I do like when I'm helping people prepare for pregnancy.

01:08:17.872 --> 01:08:27.671
If they wanted an alternative, I try to give them the common alternatives that are offered in the hospital and I give them the one next one where you can push a little right.

01:08:27.671 --> 01:08:35.997
But then I also we talk about managing expectations if we don't exactly get what we want, and also asking the questions in like a kind manner.

01:08:35.997 --> 01:08:45.583
That kind of disarms people and makes them feel instead of threatened, yeah, but kind of more like under stress or under pressure.

01:08:45.583 --> 01:08:53.993
It helps them feel more creative and they're more likely to help you if they feel creative and they feel like you're not pressuring them.

01:08:54.314 --> 01:09:02.225
So, I think it's a learned skill to be able to figure out how to talk to people in order to get what you want Exactly.

01:09:02.225 --> 01:09:09.019
So to speak, it's not really a me versus them, it's a let's just be creative and talk.

01:09:09.019 --> 01:09:10.613
Yes, let's talk together.

01:09:10.613 --> 01:09:12.059
Yes, exactly.

01:09:12.059 --> 01:09:15.860
And if you use certain language, like you're talking about, you know what are the alternatives.

01:09:15.860 --> 01:09:22.234
That's what I, that's in the brain model.

01:09:22.234 --> 01:09:23.317
I'm sure your doula shared that with you.

01:09:23.317 --> 01:09:25.222
Yeah, yeah, brain model the benefits, risks, alternatives, intuition and nothing.

01:09:25.222 --> 01:09:33.853
That that kind of gets you started down the questioning of, if you've gone through the benefits and risks and it doesn't make sense to you, you can ask for the alternatives.

01:09:33.853 --> 01:09:36.077
I usually have people skip to the nothing.

01:09:36.077 --> 01:09:37.460
What would happen if I do nothing?

01:09:37.460 --> 01:09:40.694
And then, after you get all that information, what does your intuition tell you?

01:09:40.694 --> 01:09:42.011
Tell you yeah, yeah.

01:09:42.251 --> 01:09:53.194
And then I go on and I usually have them talk about, I teach them the cuss words that we use in the hospital to communicate with providers, which is I'm concerned, I'm uncomfortable and this is a safety issue.

01:09:53.654 --> 01:10:04.019
These are how we escalate things kindly in the hospital to get the provider to realize that you're really trying to get them to listen, because sometimes they're just stressed out and thinking about the next case that's going to, and you have no idea.

01:10:04.019 --> 01:10:10.372
You have no idea how stressed out they might be about this other patient, right, and their brain just can't bring anything else in.

01:10:10.372 --> 01:10:25.841
So when you use the words that help to disarm them but also kind of trigger them to think maybe I should pay attention to this, this might be a priority, then it helps them switch to that creative aspect of their brain where they're like, oh, you know what, yeah, this might be a good option, yeah.

01:10:25.841 --> 01:10:34.475
So I work through a lot of that when I'm coaching my clients, so that when they go to the hospital they ask in such a way that they are more likely to get what they want to get what they.

01:10:34.515 --> 01:10:38.279
Yes to be received letter because the the client I had this morning.

01:10:38.279 --> 01:10:39.101
She said she was.

01:10:39.101 --> 01:10:42.331
It was against her intuition, but she was.

01:10:42.331 --> 01:10:45.740
She didn't want to be induced and she didn't think that's going to be a good idea.

01:10:45.740 --> 01:10:46.851
And it turned out not to be.

01:10:46.851 --> 01:10:52.603
And so you could, like in a disarming way, say what are my other options?

01:10:52.603 --> 01:10:54.474
What else can is possible here?

01:10:54.474 --> 01:11:00.837
What can we do instead, instead of just saying no, we're shutting it down and there might be other alternatives to that.

01:11:01.538 --> 01:11:10.173
Well, yeah, and if you're like me, when you're in the situation of being a patient, you try not to make waves, because then they don't want you to be like the healthcare provider.

01:11:10.173 --> 01:11:21.978
That's a pain in the butt, right, and so I kind of I mean, I did stand my ground a little bit in my first birth, but I did kind of allow things to happen that I wasn't fully comfortable with too.

01:11:21.978 --> 01:11:27.199
So it's like you know, learning how to say those things without feeling like you're making waves is so important.

01:11:27.621 --> 01:11:28.462
Yeah, absolutely.

01:11:29.630 --> 01:11:52.270
So before we go and before we talk about your program because we're going to, and how my listeners can access it I ask every mom this if you were to go back and talk to yourself at any time during the process of pregnancy, birth and all of that stuff and it can be either pregnancy or both what would you go back to tell yourself and where would you go?

01:11:52.270 --> 01:11:54.252
Oh wow, that's such a good question.

01:11:54.453 --> 01:12:23.859
I mean, I think I would really go back to my first pregnancy and telling myself that what I experience and what I feel my baby is feeling, and it's up to me to make sure that she feels safe and she feels calm and peaceful as much as we can together, because we will journey in pregnancy together and birth and in postpartum for several years and in the first couple of years.

01:12:24.261 --> 01:12:55.993
I don't know if others have shared this with you and I don't know if people would believe it, but it often felt like she could read my mind, so I'd be thinking something and she would say it, and I've heard that that's not uncommon, especially with your first, and that probably ended after she was two, which, I've heard, are the times that you're still very connected, and so knowing how much my emotional, mental health affected her is something I wish I had known at the time and something that I share with my families and friends and clients as well.

01:12:55.993 --> 01:13:03.569
That, like, take care of your heart, take care of your mind, are just as important as taking care of your body through diet and exercise.

01:13:03.569 --> 01:13:16.698
So that's what I would tell myself is don't estimate the power you have of creating this human life and all the things that they will evolve to be, and take care of that now, for yourself and for your child.

01:13:17.409 --> 01:13:21.797
Yeah, learning self-care is super important as a mom and also society.

01:13:21.797 --> 01:13:24.381
Help moms.

01:13:25.163 --> 01:13:29.179
Yes, please, if you see a new mom, help her.

01:13:29.179 --> 01:13:35.851
Yes, yes, don't forget, and I think we're all still surviving, right, especially if we live in America.

01:13:35.851 --> 01:13:41.621
We're all still surviving and so we might know, mom, and we might be able to do a little bit, but not as much as we would love to do.

01:13:41.621 --> 01:13:55.557
But there've been some interesting models where I've seen them match a new mom with, like, a more seasoned mom, and so maybe they work with them for three months or something until they've got their own wings to fly, but that can be really incredible.

01:13:55.557 --> 01:13:58.393
So, yes, you see a mom, help a mom out.

01:13:58.393 --> 01:14:00.297
She's struggling, you're struggling.

01:14:00.297 --> 01:14:08.002
We're all in this together and we have a lot of power as mothers, in numbers, in our strengths and our capabilities.

01:14:08.002 --> 01:14:20.420
We have a lot of power and we often forget that, but we really can change the world if we support each other and try to have the best birth, pregnancy, postpartum experiences we can have.

01:14:20.420 --> 01:14:21.681
Exactly.

01:14:22.423 --> 01:14:27.265
All right, so I want to know about the online offer that you have and how people can find it.

01:14:28.248 --> 01:14:28.992
Absolutely so.

01:14:28.992 --> 01:14:30.698
We have two courses.

01:14:30.698 --> 01:14:39.314
One is a mini course on specifically gas colic, specifically gas colic, and then we have a holistic course.

01:14:39.314 --> 01:14:42.865
That is, on all the issues from gas colic and sleep to congestion, teething, postpartum depression, bonding, all of those things.

01:14:42.865 --> 01:14:49.640
Our mini course is $69 and our full course is $169.

01:14:49.640 --> 01:14:54.573
They are available immediately upon purchase and for a lifetime.

01:14:54.573 --> 01:15:01.094
So if you have other kids or your parents want to come in and learn, you have access to this course.

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The full course has eight modules that cover legs, tummy, chest, arms, face, head, back and gentle movements, as well as some expert interviews.

01:15:11.844 --> 01:15:19.881
And then, of course, our mini course just includes the gas colic, the tummy strokes, but you will see immediate results with gas colic.

01:15:19.921 --> 01:15:22.704
We often have families who say, oh, it worked beautifully.

01:15:22.704 --> 01:15:29.387
My baby tooted or my baby passed, you know whatever it was because their digestive health is so critical right to their overall health.

01:15:29.387 --> 01:15:31.898
Doctors will ask you how many diapers are they having?

01:15:31.898 --> 01:15:51.283
So we get really excited when our babies are experiencing healthy digestion, and so you can find all of that information on our website at vianainfantmassagecom, and there you'll find information both about our baby massage offerings as well as our belly binding.

01:15:51.283 --> 01:15:53.984
But our online component is the baby massage.

01:15:53.984 --> 01:15:58.708
That is our passion and our purpose that's amazing.

01:15:58.769 --> 01:16:00.954
I love that, and we'll have that in the show notes with a link.

01:16:00.954 --> 01:16:03.521
Kathy, thank you so much for joining me.

01:16:03.521 --> 01:16:07.000
I could talk to you all day I know right, I love this stuff.

01:16:07.060 --> 01:16:13.817
I've become such a birthing geek, yeah right there with you yeah, all right.

01:16:13.817 --> 01:16:17.926
Thank you, kelly, for all that you do and for having me on same.

01:16:17.926 --> 01:16:18.606
To you, thank you.